Receiving a product after getting a refund
Last week I ordered 2 kits of impact drivers due to the unbelievably low price.
The product was discounted from 300EUR to 100, so I bought 2 of them. Next day I received an email from the company, that the given price was a mistake and that the order will be cancelled any my money was refunded.
But to my surprise, today I received the package that I have ordered, but my money was already refunded so I haven't paid for them but receive them. What should I do next? I ordered from the UK and it was shipped to Slovenia - both EU countries.
united-kingdom refund slovenia
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Last week I ordered 2 kits of impact drivers due to the unbelievably low price.
The product was discounted from 300EUR to 100, so I bought 2 of them. Next day I received an email from the company, that the given price was a mistake and that the order will be cancelled any my money was refunded.
But to my surprise, today I received the package that I have ordered, but my money was already refunded so I haven't paid for them but receive them. What should I do next? I ordered from the UK and it was shipped to Slovenia - both EU countries.
united-kingdom refund slovenia
New contributor
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
If the whole transaction had been in the UK, your only legal obligation is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition while they are in your possession (i.e. don't leave them outside in the rain!) and to allow the company to recover the goods at its own expense - either by paying you the return postage, sending a courier to collect the items from you, or whatever they choose. I don't know if the same law applies to international transactions, though.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
I think you would get a better and perhaps more expert answer at law.stackexchange.com
– Jon
yesterday
@alephzero I'm not even sure if that applies here. It depends on the timing. In UK law, the product description on the website is an invitation to treat, OP's order was an offer, and then we have a potential acceptance (the shipping of the item) and a purported rejection (the refund and email). If the acceptance took place first, then the rejection is invalid as there is already a contract. The OP's obligation would then be to pay the 100 euro. I agree with the above comment - this question should be moved to law.stackexchange.com.
– JBentley
23 hours ago
1
What is your desired outcome here? Keep the tools for free? Pay the E100? Send them back so you don't have to store them?
– Harper
22 hours ago
add a comment |
Last week I ordered 2 kits of impact drivers due to the unbelievably low price.
The product was discounted from 300EUR to 100, so I bought 2 of them. Next day I received an email from the company, that the given price was a mistake and that the order will be cancelled any my money was refunded.
But to my surprise, today I received the package that I have ordered, but my money was already refunded so I haven't paid for them but receive them. What should I do next? I ordered from the UK and it was shipped to Slovenia - both EU countries.
united-kingdom refund slovenia
New contributor
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Last week I ordered 2 kits of impact drivers due to the unbelievably low price.
The product was discounted from 300EUR to 100, so I bought 2 of them. Next day I received an email from the company, that the given price was a mistake and that the order will be cancelled any my money was refunded.
But to my surprise, today I received the package that I have ordered, but my money was already refunded so I haven't paid for them but receive them. What should I do next? I ordered from the UK and it was shipped to Slovenia - both EU countries.
united-kingdom refund slovenia
united-kingdom refund slovenia
New contributor
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited yesterday
Ganesh Sittampalam♦
18.1k55488
18.1k55488
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asked yesterday
Žiga Gazvoda
764
764
New contributor
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
If the whole transaction had been in the UK, your only legal obligation is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition while they are in your possession (i.e. don't leave them outside in the rain!) and to allow the company to recover the goods at its own expense - either by paying you the return postage, sending a courier to collect the items from you, or whatever they choose. I don't know if the same law applies to international transactions, though.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
I think you would get a better and perhaps more expert answer at law.stackexchange.com
– Jon
yesterday
@alephzero I'm not even sure if that applies here. It depends on the timing. In UK law, the product description on the website is an invitation to treat, OP's order was an offer, and then we have a potential acceptance (the shipping of the item) and a purported rejection (the refund and email). If the acceptance took place first, then the rejection is invalid as there is already a contract. The OP's obligation would then be to pay the 100 euro. I agree with the above comment - this question should be moved to law.stackexchange.com.
– JBentley
23 hours ago
1
What is your desired outcome here? Keep the tools for free? Pay the E100? Send them back so you don't have to store them?
– Harper
22 hours ago
add a comment |
1
If the whole transaction had been in the UK, your only legal obligation is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition while they are in your possession (i.e. don't leave them outside in the rain!) and to allow the company to recover the goods at its own expense - either by paying you the return postage, sending a courier to collect the items from you, or whatever they choose. I don't know if the same law applies to international transactions, though.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
I think you would get a better and perhaps more expert answer at law.stackexchange.com
– Jon
yesterday
@alephzero I'm not even sure if that applies here. It depends on the timing. In UK law, the product description on the website is an invitation to treat, OP's order was an offer, and then we have a potential acceptance (the shipping of the item) and a purported rejection (the refund and email). If the acceptance took place first, then the rejection is invalid as there is already a contract. The OP's obligation would then be to pay the 100 euro. I agree with the above comment - this question should be moved to law.stackexchange.com.
– JBentley
23 hours ago
1
What is your desired outcome here? Keep the tools for free? Pay the E100? Send them back so you don't have to store them?
– Harper
22 hours ago
1
1
If the whole transaction had been in the UK, your only legal obligation is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition while they are in your possession (i.e. don't leave them outside in the rain!) and to allow the company to recover the goods at its own expense - either by paying you the return postage, sending a courier to collect the items from you, or whatever they choose. I don't know if the same law applies to international transactions, though.
– alephzero
yesterday
If the whole transaction had been in the UK, your only legal obligation is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition while they are in your possession (i.e. don't leave them outside in the rain!) and to allow the company to recover the goods at its own expense - either by paying you the return postage, sending a courier to collect the items from you, or whatever they choose. I don't know if the same law applies to international transactions, though.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
1
I think you would get a better and perhaps more expert answer at law.stackexchange.com
– Jon
yesterday
I think you would get a better and perhaps more expert answer at law.stackexchange.com
– Jon
yesterday
@alephzero I'm not even sure if that applies here. It depends on the timing. In UK law, the product description on the website is an invitation to treat, OP's order was an offer, and then we have a potential acceptance (the shipping of the item) and a purported rejection (the refund and email). If the acceptance took place first, then the rejection is invalid as there is already a contract. The OP's obligation would then be to pay the 100 euro. I agree with the above comment - this question should be moved to law.stackexchange.com.
– JBentley
23 hours ago
@alephzero I'm not even sure if that applies here. It depends on the timing. In UK law, the product description on the website is an invitation to treat, OP's order was an offer, and then we have a potential acceptance (the shipping of the item) and a purported rejection (the refund and email). If the acceptance took place first, then the rejection is invalid as there is already a contract. The OP's obligation would then be to pay the 100 euro. I agree with the above comment - this question should be moved to law.stackexchange.com.
– JBentley
23 hours ago
1
1
What is your desired outcome here? Keep the tools for free? Pay the E100? Send them back so you don't have to store them?
– Harper
22 hours ago
What is your desired outcome here? Keep the tools for free? Pay the E100? Send them back so you don't have to store them?
– Harper
22 hours ago
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
Contact the company and let them know you have received the product even though the cancellation was made.
Ask them if they want you to ship it back (this implies that they pay for shipping since it was their error).
You can also offer them to pay 200EUR per the original order to keep the merchandise.
Odds are that they will say "This was our mistake, please keep it as a token of our appreciation and as a Christmas present."
You can choose to not say anything and just keep the item but it's morally wrong even though the company will probably not seek restitution.
5
I don't think it's morally wrong because you don't need to tell them. They know. Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork", they know the order went through to shipping to ship 2 drills, they know their inventory is light the 2 drills, they got billed for shipping X grams, and they know the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. Their decision is whether it is worth human bandwidth chasing you for them, and that is a business decision only they can make. They will make it in their own self interest. Bothering them creates human cost nonconsensually.
– Harper
yesterday
15
Bothering them removes any liability for fraud or deceptive gain that the asker may have. Whether the company should know or not, the customer also has a duty of good faith to alert them to a potential mistake. Anything else has got plenty of people in trouble; your suggestion is at best legally dodgy and certainly not morally clean either. @Harper
– Nij
yesterday
1
[citation needed]. I have never heard of someone being hassled for refusing to return unordered product. Certainly in the States if they ship it to you in error, law says it's yours. But holding onto it for a year without spending/using up/wasting it is prudent. Someone getting an unexpected bank deposit and absconding with it is a different deal covered by different law, and regardless it's the absconding that gets them in trouble, not the receiving.
– Harper
yesterday
2
@gnasher729 same difference. It ceased to be an order when they canceled it. You can't cancel a contract in writing, and then do your part of the contract anyway and expect to be paid.
– Harper
yesterday
2
It's worth pointing out that regardless of the persnickety legal details of the matter, calling and asking does resolve the issue about a year faster - whether that means the company letting you keep it with compliments, getting it shipped back, or paying 200 Euro
– Pingcode
19 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
I doubt its worth the company's time to try to get anything from you forcibly(through legal means or otherwise) after they messed up as described here.
That being said, you did end up with items you 're not entitled to by their mistake.
I still think the honorable thing to do would be to contact them to let them know as a gesture of good will and work an outcome that satisfies you both.
add a comment |
There are a few different angles to this.
Firstly, morally and legally you certainly should inform the company of the situation and offer to pay the 200EUR you ordered the two items at.
The question then is what happens if they instead demand the return of the items. Here things become more of a grey area.
On the legal side, companies who want to rescind mistaken prices they advertised will generally claim that a contract to buy the item at the low price hasn't yet been formed, either because of the exact sequence of legal events or because the price was an obvious mistake. A discount of 300EUR to 100EUR, particularly in a commercial environment where discounting is commonplace, doesn't seem that extreme to me, though you yourself described it as "unbelieveable". Overall you may well have some room to argue that a valid contract was formed and you are entitled to keep the items but pay the 200EUR.
On the practical side, you have possession in your favour, along with the fact that at a minimum the company will lose out on two sets of international shipping costs if they do get the items returned. If they do want to pursue you legally they'd have to do it in the Slovenian courts. So if you do feel you have a valid case to keep them, you can probably just stand your ground.
By not contacting them and simply being quiet and waiting for them to write something to me, am i doing anything illeagal?
– Žiga Gazvoda
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda It could probably be considered dishonesty (and hence theft/fraud) - certainly in the UK people who have kept quiet about accidental deposits into their bank accounts and spent them have been convicted.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda, one needs to separate between moral vs legal requirements. Just because something "should be" morally done does not mean it is also a legal requirement. For example in USA (which is under the "common law"), if you walk past a lake and someone drowning, you do not have a legal requirement to help them because of a "no duty to stranger" principle. Whether you then have a moral / ethical requirement to help is dependent on your own principles. And in your case the legal responsibility to contact the seller depends on the law code in your locality (presumably in Slovenia?).
– user100487
yesterday
1
@ŽigaGazvoda There is no illegality under UK law. The legal situation is that the company notified you that they refused your order (which they can legally do) and then sent you some "unsolicited goods." Your only obligation under UK law is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition, allow the company to recover them at their own expense.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
Dont forget to put a time limit on your offer. Like one month or so. Worst case, they dont reply, then you buy these items elsewhere (because you need to use them) and then out of blue they take your offer.
– lalala
17 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
You did nothing wrong. The seller made two gross mistakes: Offering a product for €100 instead of €300, and shipping the product after refunding your money.
If you have a bad conscience about benefitting from their double error, you can contact them and offer to pay the €200, or allow them to pick up the product. The result will be equally likely that they say "yes, please pay €200" or that they will say "our mistake, keep the product".
For financial reasons, they will not try to get the product back, because that will most likely produce so much work, it's not worth it. Why would they say "keep the product"? Because that hides the fact that someone made a big mistake (and that someone might not want their boss to know), and quite likely the company has no process in place to handle such an unusual request.
If you have no bad conscience, you can keep the product - it is most unlikely that they will do anything about it, and most unlikely if they do something that they can get more than your €200 which you were willing to pay anyway.
add a comment |
TLDR: when they canceled your order, it's only fair to assume you bought other tools because you needed to finish your project. They can't expect you to buy the units now. They should know you have them. Give them only a perfunctory call to notify them that you did receive them. Don't press them to do anything - if they care, let them tell you.
They should know. Don't expect them to want it back
Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork". They know shipping recorded the ship, and they got billed for shipping a package of X grams to you. They know inventory is light the 2 drills, and the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. It's in the system. But companies recognize, especially in the busy season, errors happen and it's better to eat the errors than slow everything down with better error-checking.
you have committed no deception. It's a mistake, it's their mistake, and it places no active duty on you. I advise telling them (what they already know) only because you have morals. Companies do not, they have bottom lines.
Not every return is worth the company's time. It's routine for Amazon, for instance, to just say "keep it" because the residual value to Amazon is not worth the cost of shipping. And they're not even the manufacturer! Manufacturers have vastly more margin, becuase the bulk of their costs are fixed and the cost of +2 items is negligible.
The strange economics of small Chinese-made stuff
They have to compare, in aggregate:
- the residual value (after the costs of getting it back through the returns system, inspecting/certifying it as good, etc.) and it will be post-consumer, so they cannot sell it as new product and is certainly not worth €100
- the costs of dealing with you (#1, the human cost of outreaching to you), as well as the cost of shipping since this is their fault.
versus the cost of simply telling the Chinese manufacturer to throw 2 more into the next container, forgetting about yours and moving on.
These days, 90% of the product cost is in marketing, design and setting up the Chinese factory relationship in the first place. All fixed costs -- once that is in place, the incremental cost of making one more is very small. Don't be shocked if this thing costs $8 to make.
This crazy economics changes everything in returns. What's the company going to do with a returned one? They can't sell it as new. They can sell it as "refurbished" but that means paying QA to refurbish, only to get less money for it. Refurbishing isn't worth it because it would be more expensive than just manufacturing another one. So they would smash them, but that too costs staff/money! So don't even bother with the shipping: have the consumer toss the bad one out. (Or do as he pleases). The post-consumer tool has no residual value.
So from the company's perspective, the easiest way to get 2 more products to sell is to increment their next order by 2 - spend €16 and get definitely new, good, first tier sellable product they can get a full €200 for.
In this example, chasing you (and everyone else in this situation) for this product would be bad business, a waste of resources and a self-destructive total net lose for the company.
Don‘t interfere with their economic choice
You need to contact them, because that's "right". But here's the thing: recognize that it may be bad business for them to want the items back. So don't insist or press them for a return, let them drop the matter.
Ever do a nice thing for a person, and you really don't mind but they're awkwardly forcing some sort of recompense upon you that is not called for and that makes you uncomfortable? That. Don't do that to them. Their morals are their morals, and are not yours.
Once you've told them, give it a week and then go ahead and use them. I would not sell, give away, wear out or destroy them for at least a year. Just in case.
2
Also: Someone at the company messed things up. If you bring this matter up, the someone who messed things up might get into trouble. After all, they are €200 worse off as if they had just sold you the product for €100 each.
– gnasher729
yesterday
2
Given the OP actually wants the items, keeping them unused for a year isn't necessarily all that helpful.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@GaneshSittampalam given that the company canceled the order, It's only fair to assume OP still had to get his project done, and responded to that cancel email by obtaining tools elsewhere.
– Harper
22 hours ago
@GaneshSittampalam I've done a reversal. Really, its a new answer, I should delete and recreate.
– Harper
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Contact the company and let them know you have received the product even though the cancellation was made.
Ask them if they want you to ship it back (this implies that they pay for shipping since it was their error).
You can also offer them to pay 200EUR per the original order to keep the merchandise.
Odds are that they will say "This was our mistake, please keep it as a token of our appreciation and as a Christmas present."
You can choose to not say anything and just keep the item but it's morally wrong even though the company will probably not seek restitution.
5
I don't think it's morally wrong because you don't need to tell them. They know. Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork", they know the order went through to shipping to ship 2 drills, they know their inventory is light the 2 drills, they got billed for shipping X grams, and they know the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. Their decision is whether it is worth human bandwidth chasing you for them, and that is a business decision only they can make. They will make it in their own self interest. Bothering them creates human cost nonconsensually.
– Harper
yesterday
15
Bothering them removes any liability for fraud or deceptive gain that the asker may have. Whether the company should know or not, the customer also has a duty of good faith to alert them to a potential mistake. Anything else has got plenty of people in trouble; your suggestion is at best legally dodgy and certainly not morally clean either. @Harper
– Nij
yesterday
1
[citation needed]. I have never heard of someone being hassled for refusing to return unordered product. Certainly in the States if they ship it to you in error, law says it's yours. But holding onto it for a year without spending/using up/wasting it is prudent. Someone getting an unexpected bank deposit and absconding with it is a different deal covered by different law, and regardless it's the absconding that gets them in trouble, not the receiving.
– Harper
yesterday
2
@gnasher729 same difference. It ceased to be an order when they canceled it. You can't cancel a contract in writing, and then do your part of the contract anyway and expect to be paid.
– Harper
yesterday
2
It's worth pointing out that regardless of the persnickety legal details of the matter, calling and asking does resolve the issue about a year faster - whether that means the company letting you keep it with compliments, getting it shipped back, or paying 200 Euro
– Pingcode
19 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
Contact the company and let them know you have received the product even though the cancellation was made.
Ask them if they want you to ship it back (this implies that they pay for shipping since it was their error).
You can also offer them to pay 200EUR per the original order to keep the merchandise.
Odds are that they will say "This was our mistake, please keep it as a token of our appreciation and as a Christmas present."
You can choose to not say anything and just keep the item but it's morally wrong even though the company will probably not seek restitution.
5
I don't think it's morally wrong because you don't need to tell them. They know. Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork", they know the order went through to shipping to ship 2 drills, they know their inventory is light the 2 drills, they got billed for shipping X grams, and they know the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. Their decision is whether it is worth human bandwidth chasing you for them, and that is a business decision only they can make. They will make it in their own self interest. Bothering them creates human cost nonconsensually.
– Harper
yesterday
15
Bothering them removes any liability for fraud or deceptive gain that the asker may have. Whether the company should know or not, the customer also has a duty of good faith to alert them to a potential mistake. Anything else has got plenty of people in trouble; your suggestion is at best legally dodgy and certainly not morally clean either. @Harper
– Nij
yesterday
1
[citation needed]. I have never heard of someone being hassled for refusing to return unordered product. Certainly in the States if they ship it to you in error, law says it's yours. But holding onto it for a year without spending/using up/wasting it is prudent. Someone getting an unexpected bank deposit and absconding with it is a different deal covered by different law, and regardless it's the absconding that gets them in trouble, not the receiving.
– Harper
yesterday
2
@gnasher729 same difference. It ceased to be an order when they canceled it. You can't cancel a contract in writing, and then do your part of the contract anyway and expect to be paid.
– Harper
yesterday
2
It's worth pointing out that regardless of the persnickety legal details of the matter, calling and asking does resolve the issue about a year faster - whether that means the company letting you keep it with compliments, getting it shipped back, or paying 200 Euro
– Pingcode
19 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
Contact the company and let them know you have received the product even though the cancellation was made.
Ask them if they want you to ship it back (this implies that they pay for shipping since it was their error).
You can also offer them to pay 200EUR per the original order to keep the merchandise.
Odds are that they will say "This was our mistake, please keep it as a token of our appreciation and as a Christmas present."
You can choose to not say anything and just keep the item but it's morally wrong even though the company will probably not seek restitution.
Contact the company and let them know you have received the product even though the cancellation was made.
Ask them if they want you to ship it back (this implies that they pay for shipping since it was their error).
You can also offer them to pay 200EUR per the original order to keep the merchandise.
Odds are that they will say "This was our mistake, please keep it as a token of our appreciation and as a Christmas present."
You can choose to not say anything and just keep the item but it's morally wrong even though the company will probably not seek restitution.
edited 10 hours ago
answered yesterday
MonkeyZeus
1,79111024
1,79111024
5
I don't think it's morally wrong because you don't need to tell them. They know. Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork", they know the order went through to shipping to ship 2 drills, they know their inventory is light the 2 drills, they got billed for shipping X grams, and they know the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. Their decision is whether it is worth human bandwidth chasing you for them, and that is a business decision only they can make. They will make it in their own self interest. Bothering them creates human cost nonconsensually.
– Harper
yesterday
15
Bothering them removes any liability for fraud or deceptive gain that the asker may have. Whether the company should know or not, the customer also has a duty of good faith to alert them to a potential mistake. Anything else has got plenty of people in trouble; your suggestion is at best legally dodgy and certainly not morally clean either. @Harper
– Nij
yesterday
1
[citation needed]. I have never heard of someone being hassled for refusing to return unordered product. Certainly in the States if they ship it to you in error, law says it's yours. But holding onto it for a year without spending/using up/wasting it is prudent. Someone getting an unexpected bank deposit and absconding with it is a different deal covered by different law, and regardless it's the absconding that gets them in trouble, not the receiving.
– Harper
yesterday
2
@gnasher729 same difference. It ceased to be an order when they canceled it. You can't cancel a contract in writing, and then do your part of the contract anyway and expect to be paid.
– Harper
yesterday
2
It's worth pointing out that regardless of the persnickety legal details of the matter, calling and asking does resolve the issue about a year faster - whether that means the company letting you keep it with compliments, getting it shipped back, or paying 200 Euro
– Pingcode
19 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
5
I don't think it's morally wrong because you don't need to tell them. They know. Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork", they know the order went through to shipping to ship 2 drills, they know their inventory is light the 2 drills, they got billed for shipping X grams, and they know the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. Their decision is whether it is worth human bandwidth chasing you for them, and that is a business decision only they can make. They will make it in their own self interest. Bothering them creates human cost nonconsensually.
– Harper
yesterday
15
Bothering them removes any liability for fraud or deceptive gain that the asker may have. Whether the company should know or not, the customer also has a duty of good faith to alert them to a potential mistake. Anything else has got plenty of people in trouble; your suggestion is at best legally dodgy and certainly not morally clean either. @Harper
– Nij
yesterday
1
[citation needed]. I have never heard of someone being hassled for refusing to return unordered product. Certainly in the States if they ship it to you in error, law says it's yours. But holding onto it for a year without spending/using up/wasting it is prudent. Someone getting an unexpected bank deposit and absconding with it is a different deal covered by different law, and regardless it's the absconding that gets them in trouble, not the receiving.
– Harper
yesterday
2
@gnasher729 same difference. It ceased to be an order when they canceled it. You can't cancel a contract in writing, and then do your part of the contract anyway and expect to be paid.
– Harper
yesterday
2
It's worth pointing out that regardless of the persnickety legal details of the matter, calling and asking does resolve the issue about a year faster - whether that means the company letting you keep it with compliments, getting it shipped back, or paying 200 Euro
– Pingcode
19 hours ago
5
5
I don't think it's morally wrong because you don't need to tell them. They know. Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork", they know the order went through to shipping to ship 2 drills, they know their inventory is light the 2 drills, they got billed for shipping X grams, and they know the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. Their decision is whether it is worth human bandwidth chasing you for them, and that is a business decision only they can make. They will make it in their own self interest. Bothering them creates human cost nonconsensually.
– Harper
yesterday
I don't think it's morally wrong because you don't need to tell them. They know. Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork", they know the order went through to shipping to ship 2 drills, they know their inventory is light the 2 drills, they got billed for shipping X grams, and they know the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. Their decision is whether it is worth human bandwidth chasing you for them, and that is a business decision only they can make. They will make it in their own self interest. Bothering them creates human cost nonconsensually.
– Harper
yesterday
15
15
Bothering them removes any liability for fraud or deceptive gain that the asker may have. Whether the company should know or not, the customer also has a duty of good faith to alert them to a potential mistake. Anything else has got plenty of people in trouble; your suggestion is at best legally dodgy and certainly not morally clean either. @Harper
– Nij
yesterday
Bothering them removes any liability for fraud or deceptive gain that the asker may have. Whether the company should know or not, the customer also has a duty of good faith to alert them to a potential mistake. Anything else has got plenty of people in trouble; your suggestion is at best legally dodgy and certainly not morally clean either. @Harper
– Nij
yesterday
1
1
[citation needed]. I have never heard of someone being hassled for refusing to return unordered product. Certainly in the States if they ship it to you in error, law says it's yours. But holding onto it for a year without spending/using up/wasting it is prudent. Someone getting an unexpected bank deposit and absconding with it is a different deal covered by different law, and regardless it's the absconding that gets them in trouble, not the receiving.
– Harper
yesterday
[citation needed]. I have never heard of someone being hassled for refusing to return unordered product. Certainly in the States if they ship it to you in error, law says it's yours. But holding onto it for a year without spending/using up/wasting it is prudent. Someone getting an unexpected bank deposit and absconding with it is a different deal covered by different law, and regardless it's the absconding that gets them in trouble, not the receiving.
– Harper
yesterday
2
2
@gnasher729 same difference. It ceased to be an order when they canceled it. You can't cancel a contract in writing, and then do your part of the contract anyway and expect to be paid.
– Harper
yesterday
@gnasher729 same difference. It ceased to be an order when they canceled it. You can't cancel a contract in writing, and then do your part of the contract anyway and expect to be paid.
– Harper
yesterday
2
2
It's worth pointing out that regardless of the persnickety legal details of the matter, calling and asking does resolve the issue about a year faster - whether that means the company letting you keep it with compliments, getting it shipped back, or paying 200 Euro
– Pingcode
19 hours ago
It's worth pointing out that regardless of the persnickety legal details of the matter, calling and asking does resolve the issue about a year faster - whether that means the company letting you keep it with compliments, getting it shipped back, or paying 200 Euro
– Pingcode
19 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
I doubt its worth the company's time to try to get anything from you forcibly(through legal means or otherwise) after they messed up as described here.
That being said, you did end up with items you 're not entitled to by their mistake.
I still think the honorable thing to do would be to contact them to let them know as a gesture of good will and work an outcome that satisfies you both.
add a comment |
I doubt its worth the company's time to try to get anything from you forcibly(through legal means or otherwise) after they messed up as described here.
That being said, you did end up with items you 're not entitled to by their mistake.
I still think the honorable thing to do would be to contact them to let them know as a gesture of good will and work an outcome that satisfies you both.
add a comment |
I doubt its worth the company's time to try to get anything from you forcibly(through legal means or otherwise) after they messed up as described here.
That being said, you did end up with items you 're not entitled to by their mistake.
I still think the honorable thing to do would be to contact them to let them know as a gesture of good will and work an outcome that satisfies you both.
I doubt its worth the company's time to try to get anything from you forcibly(through legal means or otherwise) after they messed up as described here.
That being said, you did end up with items you 're not entitled to by their mistake.
I still think the honorable thing to do would be to contact them to let them know as a gesture of good will and work an outcome that satisfies you both.
answered yesterday
Leon
2,2461319
2,2461319
add a comment |
add a comment |
There are a few different angles to this.
Firstly, morally and legally you certainly should inform the company of the situation and offer to pay the 200EUR you ordered the two items at.
The question then is what happens if they instead demand the return of the items. Here things become more of a grey area.
On the legal side, companies who want to rescind mistaken prices they advertised will generally claim that a contract to buy the item at the low price hasn't yet been formed, either because of the exact sequence of legal events or because the price was an obvious mistake. A discount of 300EUR to 100EUR, particularly in a commercial environment where discounting is commonplace, doesn't seem that extreme to me, though you yourself described it as "unbelieveable". Overall you may well have some room to argue that a valid contract was formed and you are entitled to keep the items but pay the 200EUR.
On the practical side, you have possession in your favour, along with the fact that at a minimum the company will lose out on two sets of international shipping costs if they do get the items returned. If they do want to pursue you legally they'd have to do it in the Slovenian courts. So if you do feel you have a valid case to keep them, you can probably just stand your ground.
By not contacting them and simply being quiet and waiting for them to write something to me, am i doing anything illeagal?
– Žiga Gazvoda
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda It could probably be considered dishonesty (and hence theft/fraud) - certainly in the UK people who have kept quiet about accidental deposits into their bank accounts and spent them have been convicted.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda, one needs to separate between moral vs legal requirements. Just because something "should be" morally done does not mean it is also a legal requirement. For example in USA (which is under the "common law"), if you walk past a lake and someone drowning, you do not have a legal requirement to help them because of a "no duty to stranger" principle. Whether you then have a moral / ethical requirement to help is dependent on your own principles. And in your case the legal responsibility to contact the seller depends on the law code in your locality (presumably in Slovenia?).
– user100487
yesterday
1
@ŽigaGazvoda There is no illegality under UK law. The legal situation is that the company notified you that they refused your order (which they can legally do) and then sent you some "unsolicited goods." Your only obligation under UK law is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition, allow the company to recover them at their own expense.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
Dont forget to put a time limit on your offer. Like one month or so. Worst case, they dont reply, then you buy these items elsewhere (because you need to use them) and then out of blue they take your offer.
– lalala
17 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
There are a few different angles to this.
Firstly, morally and legally you certainly should inform the company of the situation and offer to pay the 200EUR you ordered the two items at.
The question then is what happens if they instead demand the return of the items. Here things become more of a grey area.
On the legal side, companies who want to rescind mistaken prices they advertised will generally claim that a contract to buy the item at the low price hasn't yet been formed, either because of the exact sequence of legal events or because the price was an obvious mistake. A discount of 300EUR to 100EUR, particularly in a commercial environment where discounting is commonplace, doesn't seem that extreme to me, though you yourself described it as "unbelieveable". Overall you may well have some room to argue that a valid contract was formed and you are entitled to keep the items but pay the 200EUR.
On the practical side, you have possession in your favour, along with the fact that at a minimum the company will lose out on two sets of international shipping costs if they do get the items returned. If they do want to pursue you legally they'd have to do it in the Slovenian courts. So if you do feel you have a valid case to keep them, you can probably just stand your ground.
By not contacting them and simply being quiet and waiting for them to write something to me, am i doing anything illeagal?
– Žiga Gazvoda
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda It could probably be considered dishonesty (and hence theft/fraud) - certainly in the UK people who have kept quiet about accidental deposits into their bank accounts and spent them have been convicted.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda, one needs to separate between moral vs legal requirements. Just because something "should be" morally done does not mean it is also a legal requirement. For example in USA (which is under the "common law"), if you walk past a lake and someone drowning, you do not have a legal requirement to help them because of a "no duty to stranger" principle. Whether you then have a moral / ethical requirement to help is dependent on your own principles. And in your case the legal responsibility to contact the seller depends on the law code in your locality (presumably in Slovenia?).
– user100487
yesterday
1
@ŽigaGazvoda There is no illegality under UK law. The legal situation is that the company notified you that they refused your order (which they can legally do) and then sent you some "unsolicited goods." Your only obligation under UK law is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition, allow the company to recover them at their own expense.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
Dont forget to put a time limit on your offer. Like one month or so. Worst case, they dont reply, then you buy these items elsewhere (because you need to use them) and then out of blue they take your offer.
– lalala
17 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
There are a few different angles to this.
Firstly, morally and legally you certainly should inform the company of the situation and offer to pay the 200EUR you ordered the two items at.
The question then is what happens if they instead demand the return of the items. Here things become more of a grey area.
On the legal side, companies who want to rescind mistaken prices they advertised will generally claim that a contract to buy the item at the low price hasn't yet been formed, either because of the exact sequence of legal events or because the price was an obvious mistake. A discount of 300EUR to 100EUR, particularly in a commercial environment where discounting is commonplace, doesn't seem that extreme to me, though you yourself described it as "unbelieveable". Overall you may well have some room to argue that a valid contract was formed and you are entitled to keep the items but pay the 200EUR.
On the practical side, you have possession in your favour, along with the fact that at a minimum the company will lose out on two sets of international shipping costs if they do get the items returned. If they do want to pursue you legally they'd have to do it in the Slovenian courts. So if you do feel you have a valid case to keep them, you can probably just stand your ground.
There are a few different angles to this.
Firstly, morally and legally you certainly should inform the company of the situation and offer to pay the 200EUR you ordered the two items at.
The question then is what happens if they instead demand the return of the items. Here things become more of a grey area.
On the legal side, companies who want to rescind mistaken prices they advertised will generally claim that a contract to buy the item at the low price hasn't yet been formed, either because of the exact sequence of legal events or because the price was an obvious mistake. A discount of 300EUR to 100EUR, particularly in a commercial environment where discounting is commonplace, doesn't seem that extreme to me, though you yourself described it as "unbelieveable". Overall you may well have some room to argue that a valid contract was formed and you are entitled to keep the items but pay the 200EUR.
On the practical side, you have possession in your favour, along with the fact that at a minimum the company will lose out on two sets of international shipping costs if they do get the items returned. If they do want to pursue you legally they'd have to do it in the Slovenian courts. So if you do feel you have a valid case to keep them, you can probably just stand your ground.
answered yesterday
Ganesh Sittampalam♦
18.1k55488
18.1k55488
By not contacting them and simply being quiet and waiting for them to write something to me, am i doing anything illeagal?
– Žiga Gazvoda
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda It could probably be considered dishonesty (and hence theft/fraud) - certainly in the UK people who have kept quiet about accidental deposits into their bank accounts and spent them have been convicted.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda, one needs to separate between moral vs legal requirements. Just because something "should be" morally done does not mean it is also a legal requirement. For example in USA (which is under the "common law"), if you walk past a lake and someone drowning, you do not have a legal requirement to help them because of a "no duty to stranger" principle. Whether you then have a moral / ethical requirement to help is dependent on your own principles. And in your case the legal responsibility to contact the seller depends on the law code in your locality (presumably in Slovenia?).
– user100487
yesterday
1
@ŽigaGazvoda There is no illegality under UK law. The legal situation is that the company notified you that they refused your order (which they can legally do) and then sent you some "unsolicited goods." Your only obligation under UK law is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition, allow the company to recover them at their own expense.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
Dont forget to put a time limit on your offer. Like one month or so. Worst case, they dont reply, then you buy these items elsewhere (because you need to use them) and then out of blue they take your offer.
– lalala
17 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
By not contacting them and simply being quiet and waiting for them to write something to me, am i doing anything illeagal?
– Žiga Gazvoda
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda It could probably be considered dishonesty (and hence theft/fraud) - certainly in the UK people who have kept quiet about accidental deposits into their bank accounts and spent them have been convicted.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda, one needs to separate between moral vs legal requirements. Just because something "should be" morally done does not mean it is also a legal requirement. For example in USA (which is under the "common law"), if you walk past a lake and someone drowning, you do not have a legal requirement to help them because of a "no duty to stranger" principle. Whether you then have a moral / ethical requirement to help is dependent on your own principles. And in your case the legal responsibility to contact the seller depends on the law code in your locality (presumably in Slovenia?).
– user100487
yesterday
1
@ŽigaGazvoda There is no illegality under UK law. The legal situation is that the company notified you that they refused your order (which they can legally do) and then sent you some "unsolicited goods." Your only obligation under UK law is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition, allow the company to recover them at their own expense.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
Dont forget to put a time limit on your offer. Like one month or so. Worst case, they dont reply, then you buy these items elsewhere (because you need to use them) and then out of blue they take your offer.
– lalala
17 hours ago
By not contacting them and simply being quiet and waiting for them to write something to me, am i doing anything illeagal?
– Žiga Gazvoda
yesterday
By not contacting them and simply being quiet and waiting for them to write something to me, am i doing anything illeagal?
– Žiga Gazvoda
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda It could probably be considered dishonesty (and hence theft/fraud) - certainly in the UK people who have kept quiet about accidental deposits into their bank accounts and spent them have been convicted.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda It could probably be considered dishonesty (and hence theft/fraud) - certainly in the UK people who have kept quiet about accidental deposits into their bank accounts and spent them have been convicted.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda, one needs to separate between moral vs legal requirements. Just because something "should be" morally done does not mean it is also a legal requirement. For example in USA (which is under the "common law"), if you walk past a lake and someone drowning, you do not have a legal requirement to help them because of a "no duty to stranger" principle. Whether you then have a moral / ethical requirement to help is dependent on your own principles. And in your case the legal responsibility to contact the seller depends on the law code in your locality (presumably in Slovenia?).
– user100487
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda, one needs to separate between moral vs legal requirements. Just because something "should be" morally done does not mean it is also a legal requirement. For example in USA (which is under the "common law"), if you walk past a lake and someone drowning, you do not have a legal requirement to help them because of a "no duty to stranger" principle. Whether you then have a moral / ethical requirement to help is dependent on your own principles. And in your case the legal responsibility to contact the seller depends on the law code in your locality (presumably in Slovenia?).
– user100487
yesterday
1
1
@ŽigaGazvoda There is no illegality under UK law. The legal situation is that the company notified you that they refused your order (which they can legally do) and then sent you some "unsolicited goods." Your only obligation under UK law is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition, allow the company to recover them at their own expense.
– alephzero
yesterday
@ŽigaGazvoda There is no illegality under UK law. The legal situation is that the company notified you that they refused your order (which they can legally do) and then sent you some "unsolicited goods." Your only obligation under UK law is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition, allow the company to recover them at their own expense.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
1
Dont forget to put a time limit on your offer. Like one month or so. Worst case, they dont reply, then you buy these items elsewhere (because you need to use them) and then out of blue they take your offer.
– lalala
17 hours ago
Dont forget to put a time limit on your offer. Like one month or so. Worst case, they dont reply, then you buy these items elsewhere (because you need to use them) and then out of blue they take your offer.
– lalala
17 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
You did nothing wrong. The seller made two gross mistakes: Offering a product for €100 instead of €300, and shipping the product after refunding your money.
If you have a bad conscience about benefitting from their double error, you can contact them and offer to pay the €200, or allow them to pick up the product. The result will be equally likely that they say "yes, please pay €200" or that they will say "our mistake, keep the product".
For financial reasons, they will not try to get the product back, because that will most likely produce so much work, it's not worth it. Why would they say "keep the product"? Because that hides the fact that someone made a big mistake (and that someone might not want their boss to know), and quite likely the company has no process in place to handle such an unusual request.
If you have no bad conscience, you can keep the product - it is most unlikely that they will do anything about it, and most unlikely if they do something that they can get more than your €200 which you were willing to pay anyway.
add a comment |
You did nothing wrong. The seller made two gross mistakes: Offering a product for €100 instead of €300, and shipping the product after refunding your money.
If you have a bad conscience about benefitting from their double error, you can contact them and offer to pay the €200, or allow them to pick up the product. The result will be equally likely that they say "yes, please pay €200" or that they will say "our mistake, keep the product".
For financial reasons, they will not try to get the product back, because that will most likely produce so much work, it's not worth it. Why would they say "keep the product"? Because that hides the fact that someone made a big mistake (and that someone might not want their boss to know), and quite likely the company has no process in place to handle such an unusual request.
If you have no bad conscience, you can keep the product - it is most unlikely that they will do anything about it, and most unlikely if they do something that they can get more than your €200 which you were willing to pay anyway.
add a comment |
You did nothing wrong. The seller made two gross mistakes: Offering a product for €100 instead of €300, and shipping the product after refunding your money.
If you have a bad conscience about benefitting from their double error, you can contact them and offer to pay the €200, or allow them to pick up the product. The result will be equally likely that they say "yes, please pay €200" or that they will say "our mistake, keep the product".
For financial reasons, they will not try to get the product back, because that will most likely produce so much work, it's not worth it. Why would they say "keep the product"? Because that hides the fact that someone made a big mistake (and that someone might not want their boss to know), and quite likely the company has no process in place to handle such an unusual request.
If you have no bad conscience, you can keep the product - it is most unlikely that they will do anything about it, and most unlikely if they do something that they can get more than your €200 which you were willing to pay anyway.
You did nothing wrong. The seller made two gross mistakes: Offering a product for €100 instead of €300, and shipping the product after refunding your money.
If you have a bad conscience about benefitting from their double error, you can contact them and offer to pay the €200, or allow them to pick up the product. The result will be equally likely that they say "yes, please pay €200" or that they will say "our mistake, keep the product".
For financial reasons, they will not try to get the product back, because that will most likely produce so much work, it's not worth it. Why would they say "keep the product"? Because that hides the fact that someone made a big mistake (and that someone might not want their boss to know), and quite likely the company has no process in place to handle such an unusual request.
If you have no bad conscience, you can keep the product - it is most unlikely that they will do anything about it, and most unlikely if they do something that they can get more than your €200 which you were willing to pay anyway.
answered yesterday
gnasher729
8,92621228
8,92621228
add a comment |
add a comment |
TLDR: when they canceled your order, it's only fair to assume you bought other tools because you needed to finish your project. They can't expect you to buy the units now. They should know you have them. Give them only a perfunctory call to notify them that you did receive them. Don't press them to do anything - if they care, let them tell you.
They should know. Don't expect them to want it back
Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork". They know shipping recorded the ship, and they got billed for shipping a package of X grams to you. They know inventory is light the 2 drills, and the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. It's in the system. But companies recognize, especially in the busy season, errors happen and it's better to eat the errors than slow everything down with better error-checking.
you have committed no deception. It's a mistake, it's their mistake, and it places no active duty on you. I advise telling them (what they already know) only because you have morals. Companies do not, they have bottom lines.
Not every return is worth the company's time. It's routine for Amazon, for instance, to just say "keep it" because the residual value to Amazon is not worth the cost of shipping. And they're not even the manufacturer! Manufacturers have vastly more margin, becuase the bulk of their costs are fixed and the cost of +2 items is negligible.
The strange economics of small Chinese-made stuff
They have to compare, in aggregate:
- the residual value (after the costs of getting it back through the returns system, inspecting/certifying it as good, etc.) and it will be post-consumer, so they cannot sell it as new product and is certainly not worth €100
- the costs of dealing with you (#1, the human cost of outreaching to you), as well as the cost of shipping since this is their fault.
versus the cost of simply telling the Chinese manufacturer to throw 2 more into the next container, forgetting about yours and moving on.
These days, 90% of the product cost is in marketing, design and setting up the Chinese factory relationship in the first place. All fixed costs -- once that is in place, the incremental cost of making one more is very small. Don't be shocked if this thing costs $8 to make.
This crazy economics changes everything in returns. What's the company going to do with a returned one? They can't sell it as new. They can sell it as "refurbished" but that means paying QA to refurbish, only to get less money for it. Refurbishing isn't worth it because it would be more expensive than just manufacturing another one. So they would smash them, but that too costs staff/money! So don't even bother with the shipping: have the consumer toss the bad one out. (Or do as he pleases). The post-consumer tool has no residual value.
So from the company's perspective, the easiest way to get 2 more products to sell is to increment their next order by 2 - spend €16 and get definitely new, good, first tier sellable product they can get a full €200 for.
In this example, chasing you (and everyone else in this situation) for this product would be bad business, a waste of resources and a self-destructive total net lose for the company.
Don‘t interfere with their economic choice
You need to contact them, because that's "right". But here's the thing: recognize that it may be bad business for them to want the items back. So don't insist or press them for a return, let them drop the matter.
Ever do a nice thing for a person, and you really don't mind but they're awkwardly forcing some sort of recompense upon you that is not called for and that makes you uncomfortable? That. Don't do that to them. Their morals are their morals, and are not yours.
Once you've told them, give it a week and then go ahead and use them. I would not sell, give away, wear out or destroy them for at least a year. Just in case.
2
Also: Someone at the company messed things up. If you bring this matter up, the someone who messed things up might get into trouble. After all, they are €200 worse off as if they had just sold you the product for €100 each.
– gnasher729
yesterday
2
Given the OP actually wants the items, keeping them unused for a year isn't necessarily all that helpful.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@GaneshSittampalam given that the company canceled the order, It's only fair to assume OP still had to get his project done, and responded to that cancel email by obtaining tools elsewhere.
– Harper
22 hours ago
@GaneshSittampalam I've done a reversal. Really, its a new answer, I should delete and recreate.
– Harper
6 hours ago
add a comment |
TLDR: when they canceled your order, it's only fair to assume you bought other tools because you needed to finish your project. They can't expect you to buy the units now. They should know you have them. Give them only a perfunctory call to notify them that you did receive them. Don't press them to do anything - if they care, let them tell you.
They should know. Don't expect them to want it back
Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork". They know shipping recorded the ship, and they got billed for shipping a package of X grams to you. They know inventory is light the 2 drills, and the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. It's in the system. But companies recognize, especially in the busy season, errors happen and it's better to eat the errors than slow everything down with better error-checking.
you have committed no deception. It's a mistake, it's their mistake, and it places no active duty on you. I advise telling them (what they already know) only because you have morals. Companies do not, they have bottom lines.
Not every return is worth the company's time. It's routine for Amazon, for instance, to just say "keep it" because the residual value to Amazon is not worth the cost of shipping. And they're not even the manufacturer! Manufacturers have vastly more margin, becuase the bulk of their costs are fixed and the cost of +2 items is negligible.
The strange economics of small Chinese-made stuff
They have to compare, in aggregate:
- the residual value (after the costs of getting it back through the returns system, inspecting/certifying it as good, etc.) and it will be post-consumer, so they cannot sell it as new product and is certainly not worth €100
- the costs of dealing with you (#1, the human cost of outreaching to you), as well as the cost of shipping since this is their fault.
versus the cost of simply telling the Chinese manufacturer to throw 2 more into the next container, forgetting about yours and moving on.
These days, 90% of the product cost is in marketing, design and setting up the Chinese factory relationship in the first place. All fixed costs -- once that is in place, the incremental cost of making one more is very small. Don't be shocked if this thing costs $8 to make.
This crazy economics changes everything in returns. What's the company going to do with a returned one? They can't sell it as new. They can sell it as "refurbished" but that means paying QA to refurbish, only to get less money for it. Refurbishing isn't worth it because it would be more expensive than just manufacturing another one. So they would smash them, but that too costs staff/money! So don't even bother with the shipping: have the consumer toss the bad one out. (Or do as he pleases). The post-consumer tool has no residual value.
So from the company's perspective, the easiest way to get 2 more products to sell is to increment their next order by 2 - spend €16 and get definitely new, good, first tier sellable product they can get a full €200 for.
In this example, chasing you (and everyone else in this situation) for this product would be bad business, a waste of resources and a self-destructive total net lose for the company.
Don‘t interfere with their economic choice
You need to contact them, because that's "right". But here's the thing: recognize that it may be bad business for them to want the items back. So don't insist or press them for a return, let them drop the matter.
Ever do a nice thing for a person, and you really don't mind but they're awkwardly forcing some sort of recompense upon you that is not called for and that makes you uncomfortable? That. Don't do that to them. Their morals are their morals, and are not yours.
Once you've told them, give it a week and then go ahead and use them. I would not sell, give away, wear out or destroy them for at least a year. Just in case.
2
Also: Someone at the company messed things up. If you bring this matter up, the someone who messed things up might get into trouble. After all, they are €200 worse off as if they had just sold you the product for €100 each.
– gnasher729
yesterday
2
Given the OP actually wants the items, keeping them unused for a year isn't necessarily all that helpful.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@GaneshSittampalam given that the company canceled the order, It's only fair to assume OP still had to get his project done, and responded to that cancel email by obtaining tools elsewhere.
– Harper
22 hours ago
@GaneshSittampalam I've done a reversal. Really, its a new answer, I should delete and recreate.
– Harper
6 hours ago
add a comment |
TLDR: when they canceled your order, it's only fair to assume you bought other tools because you needed to finish your project. They can't expect you to buy the units now. They should know you have them. Give them only a perfunctory call to notify them that you did receive them. Don't press them to do anything - if they care, let them tell you.
They should know. Don't expect them to want it back
Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork". They know shipping recorded the ship, and they got billed for shipping a package of X grams to you. They know inventory is light the 2 drills, and the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. It's in the system. But companies recognize, especially in the busy season, errors happen and it's better to eat the errors than slow everything down with better error-checking.
you have committed no deception. It's a mistake, it's their mistake, and it places no active duty on you. I advise telling them (what they already know) only because you have morals. Companies do not, they have bottom lines.
Not every return is worth the company's time. It's routine for Amazon, for instance, to just say "keep it" because the residual value to Amazon is not worth the cost of shipping. And they're not even the manufacturer! Manufacturers have vastly more margin, becuase the bulk of their costs are fixed and the cost of +2 items is negligible.
The strange economics of small Chinese-made stuff
They have to compare, in aggregate:
- the residual value (after the costs of getting it back through the returns system, inspecting/certifying it as good, etc.) and it will be post-consumer, so they cannot sell it as new product and is certainly not worth €100
- the costs of dealing with you (#1, the human cost of outreaching to you), as well as the cost of shipping since this is their fault.
versus the cost of simply telling the Chinese manufacturer to throw 2 more into the next container, forgetting about yours and moving on.
These days, 90% of the product cost is in marketing, design and setting up the Chinese factory relationship in the first place. All fixed costs -- once that is in place, the incremental cost of making one more is very small. Don't be shocked if this thing costs $8 to make.
This crazy economics changes everything in returns. What's the company going to do with a returned one? They can't sell it as new. They can sell it as "refurbished" but that means paying QA to refurbish, only to get less money for it. Refurbishing isn't worth it because it would be more expensive than just manufacturing another one. So they would smash them, but that too costs staff/money! So don't even bother with the shipping: have the consumer toss the bad one out. (Or do as he pleases). The post-consumer tool has no residual value.
So from the company's perspective, the easiest way to get 2 more products to sell is to increment their next order by 2 - spend €16 and get definitely new, good, first tier sellable product they can get a full €200 for.
In this example, chasing you (and everyone else in this situation) for this product would be bad business, a waste of resources and a self-destructive total net lose for the company.
Don‘t interfere with their economic choice
You need to contact them, because that's "right". But here's the thing: recognize that it may be bad business for them to want the items back. So don't insist or press them for a return, let them drop the matter.
Ever do a nice thing for a person, and you really don't mind but they're awkwardly forcing some sort of recompense upon you that is not called for and that makes you uncomfortable? That. Don't do that to them. Their morals are their morals, and are not yours.
Once you've told them, give it a week and then go ahead and use them. I would not sell, give away, wear out or destroy them for at least a year. Just in case.
TLDR: when they canceled your order, it's only fair to assume you bought other tools because you needed to finish your project. They can't expect you to buy the units now. They should know you have them. Give them only a perfunctory call to notify them that you did receive them. Don't press them to do anything - if they care, let them tell you.
They should know. Don't expect them to want it back
Any competent company has internal controls i.e. "Paperwork". They know shipping recorded the ship, and they got billed for shipping a package of X grams to you. They know inventory is light the 2 drills, and the serial numbers are no longer in the warehouse. It's in the system. But companies recognize, especially in the busy season, errors happen and it's better to eat the errors than slow everything down with better error-checking.
you have committed no deception. It's a mistake, it's their mistake, and it places no active duty on you. I advise telling them (what they already know) only because you have morals. Companies do not, they have bottom lines.
Not every return is worth the company's time. It's routine for Amazon, for instance, to just say "keep it" because the residual value to Amazon is not worth the cost of shipping. And they're not even the manufacturer! Manufacturers have vastly more margin, becuase the bulk of their costs are fixed and the cost of +2 items is negligible.
The strange economics of small Chinese-made stuff
They have to compare, in aggregate:
- the residual value (after the costs of getting it back through the returns system, inspecting/certifying it as good, etc.) and it will be post-consumer, so they cannot sell it as new product and is certainly not worth €100
- the costs of dealing with you (#1, the human cost of outreaching to you), as well as the cost of shipping since this is their fault.
versus the cost of simply telling the Chinese manufacturer to throw 2 more into the next container, forgetting about yours and moving on.
These days, 90% of the product cost is in marketing, design and setting up the Chinese factory relationship in the first place. All fixed costs -- once that is in place, the incremental cost of making one more is very small. Don't be shocked if this thing costs $8 to make.
This crazy economics changes everything in returns. What's the company going to do with a returned one? They can't sell it as new. They can sell it as "refurbished" but that means paying QA to refurbish, only to get less money for it. Refurbishing isn't worth it because it would be more expensive than just manufacturing another one. So they would smash them, but that too costs staff/money! So don't even bother with the shipping: have the consumer toss the bad one out. (Or do as he pleases). The post-consumer tool has no residual value.
So from the company's perspective, the easiest way to get 2 more products to sell is to increment their next order by 2 - spend €16 and get definitely new, good, first tier sellable product they can get a full €200 for.
In this example, chasing you (and everyone else in this situation) for this product would be bad business, a waste of resources and a self-destructive total net lose for the company.
Don‘t interfere with their economic choice
You need to contact them, because that's "right". But here's the thing: recognize that it may be bad business for them to want the items back. So don't insist or press them for a return, let them drop the matter.
Ever do a nice thing for a person, and you really don't mind but they're awkwardly forcing some sort of recompense upon you that is not called for and that makes you uncomfortable? That. Don't do that to them. Their morals are their morals, and are not yours.
Once you've told them, give it a week and then go ahead and use them. I would not sell, give away, wear out or destroy them for at least a year. Just in case.
edited 6 hours ago
answered yesterday
Harper
19.8k32966
19.8k32966
2
Also: Someone at the company messed things up. If you bring this matter up, the someone who messed things up might get into trouble. After all, they are €200 worse off as if they had just sold you the product for €100 each.
– gnasher729
yesterday
2
Given the OP actually wants the items, keeping them unused for a year isn't necessarily all that helpful.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@GaneshSittampalam given that the company canceled the order, It's only fair to assume OP still had to get his project done, and responded to that cancel email by obtaining tools elsewhere.
– Harper
22 hours ago
@GaneshSittampalam I've done a reversal. Really, its a new answer, I should delete and recreate.
– Harper
6 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Also: Someone at the company messed things up. If you bring this matter up, the someone who messed things up might get into trouble. After all, they are €200 worse off as if they had just sold you the product for €100 each.
– gnasher729
yesterday
2
Given the OP actually wants the items, keeping them unused for a year isn't necessarily all that helpful.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@GaneshSittampalam given that the company canceled the order, It's only fair to assume OP still had to get his project done, and responded to that cancel email by obtaining tools elsewhere.
– Harper
22 hours ago
@GaneshSittampalam I've done a reversal. Really, its a new answer, I should delete and recreate.
– Harper
6 hours ago
2
2
Also: Someone at the company messed things up. If you bring this matter up, the someone who messed things up might get into trouble. After all, they are €200 worse off as if they had just sold you the product for €100 each.
– gnasher729
yesterday
Also: Someone at the company messed things up. If you bring this matter up, the someone who messed things up might get into trouble. After all, they are €200 worse off as if they had just sold you the product for €100 each.
– gnasher729
yesterday
2
2
Given the OP actually wants the items, keeping them unused for a year isn't necessarily all that helpful.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
Given the OP actually wants the items, keeping them unused for a year isn't necessarily all that helpful.
– Ganesh Sittampalam♦
yesterday
@GaneshSittampalam given that the company canceled the order, It's only fair to assume OP still had to get his project done, and responded to that cancel email by obtaining tools elsewhere.
– Harper
22 hours ago
@GaneshSittampalam given that the company canceled the order, It's only fair to assume OP still had to get his project done, and responded to that cancel email by obtaining tools elsewhere.
– Harper
22 hours ago
@GaneshSittampalam I've done a reversal. Really, its a new answer, I should delete and recreate.
– Harper
6 hours ago
@GaneshSittampalam I've done a reversal. Really, its a new answer, I should delete and recreate.
– Harper
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Žiga Gazvoda is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
If the whole transaction had been in the UK, your only legal obligation is to take "reasonable steps" to keep the items in good condition while they are in your possession (i.e. don't leave them outside in the rain!) and to allow the company to recover the goods at its own expense - either by paying you the return postage, sending a courier to collect the items from you, or whatever they choose. I don't know if the same law applies to international transactions, though.
– alephzero
yesterday
1
I think you would get a better and perhaps more expert answer at law.stackexchange.com
– Jon
yesterday
@alephzero I'm not even sure if that applies here. It depends on the timing. In UK law, the product description on the website is an invitation to treat, OP's order was an offer, and then we have a potential acceptance (the shipping of the item) and a purported rejection (the refund and email). If the acceptance took place first, then the rejection is invalid as there is already a contract. The OP's obligation would then be to pay the 100 euro. I agree with the above comment - this question should be moved to law.stackexchange.com.
– JBentley
23 hours ago
1
What is your desired outcome here? Keep the tools for free? Pay the E100? Send them back so you don't have to store them?
– Harper
22 hours ago