Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?
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I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.
But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
ethics books intellectual-property
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up vote
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I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.
But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
ethics books intellectual-property
New contributor
19
Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday
1
Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
14
You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
2 hours ago
1
Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
– John Meacham
1 hour ago
|
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up vote
29
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favorite
up vote
29
down vote
favorite
I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.
But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
ethics books intellectual-property
New contributor
I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.
But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
ethics books intellectual-property
ethics books intellectual-property
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edited 23 hours ago
Buffy
29.5k691156
29.5k691156
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asked yesterday
James
20125
20125
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19
Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday
1
Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
14
You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
2 hours ago
1
Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
– John Meacham
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
19
Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday
1
Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
14
You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
2 hours ago
1
Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
– John Meacham
1 hour ago
19
19
Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday
Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday
1
1
Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
14
14
You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
2 hours ago
You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
2 hours ago
1
1
Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
– John Meacham
1 hour ago
Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
– John Meacham
1 hour ago
|
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10 Answers
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With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.
Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)
Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.
- Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.
- If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.
- If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.
19
@James - (1) it still increases your exposure, though it may be negligible depending on how you do it; (2) I said you can't do it in a legal or ethical way. You seem to disagree, which is fine, but then why ask the question if you already know the answer? For that matter, being rude to those who make a good-faith effort to answer your question is not really ethical. But I will not engage further, good luck.
– cag51
yesterday
21
Upvoted, not least just because of James' comment that this is a poor answer. James seems to know better than others ("I don't think you know what the word can't means" or, in another posting "tosser" about a prof with whose philosophy he doesn't agree). James can do whatever he wants - but then, why he is asking these questions in SE if he is not interested to at least reflect about the opinions of others? Academics in many places must report pecuniary rewards possibly connected to their teaching. James knowledge about what goes or doesn't go does not seem to encompass this insight.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
6
I agree completely with @CaptainEmacs. This is actually a good question topic, unfortunately tied to a bad question-asker and bad evaluator-of-answers.
– R..
yesterday
6
@goblin - I'm anything but an ethicist, but to paraphrase the definition, rationalization is "attempting to justify actions with logical but inappropriate reasons." What I meant was that OP justifies (rationalizes) their act of piracy by reasoning that only the author deserves their share of the textbook's cost.
– cag51
yesterday
6
@goblin ...or that somehow by giving an arbitrary amount to someone, the piracy is magically transformed from simple theft to some kind of moral high-road ethical statement.
– A C
yesterday
|
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up vote
40
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I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.
Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?
The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.
To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.
Thanks for the interesting question!
*Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.
15
The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday
7
What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
23 hours ago
5
@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
20 hours ago
1
"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
19 hours ago
2
cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
19 hours ago
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up vote
21
down vote
After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:
The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.
They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.
You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.
The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.
In short then, I wouldn't do this.
However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.
4
This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday
4
@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday
9
@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday
1
@PatrickTrentin, I agree with your objection. However, note that I'm not claiming that people can be trusted to honestly appraise the value they get from any given good in the absence of any accountability mechanisms. I am saying that if you somehow know the value you're potentially going to get from the book, there's an objective answer to the question: is it ethical to steal this book?
– goblin
yesterday
2
@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
15 hours ago
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up vote
16
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If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.
My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.
1
This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
22 hours ago
I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
1 hour ago
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up vote
15
down vote
Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.
12
@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday
16
I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday
11
Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
20 hours ago
I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
1
Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.
Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.
2
I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
21 hours ago
2
See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
20 hours ago
1
Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
20 hours ago
|
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up vote
3
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You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.
The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.
I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.
Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
17 hours ago
2
Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
16 hours ago
2
@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
12 hours ago
3
@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.
My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.
At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.
New contributor
9
The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
21 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.
New contributor
2
This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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down vote
With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.
Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)
Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.
- Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.
- If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.
- If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.
19
@James - (1) it still increases your exposure, though it may be negligible depending on how you do it; (2) I said you can't do it in a legal or ethical way. You seem to disagree, which is fine, but then why ask the question if you already know the answer? For that matter, being rude to those who make a good-faith effort to answer your question is not really ethical. But I will not engage further, good luck.
– cag51
yesterday
21
Upvoted, not least just because of James' comment that this is a poor answer. James seems to know better than others ("I don't think you know what the word can't means" or, in another posting "tosser" about a prof with whose philosophy he doesn't agree). James can do whatever he wants - but then, why he is asking these questions in SE if he is not interested to at least reflect about the opinions of others? Academics in many places must report pecuniary rewards possibly connected to their teaching. James knowledge about what goes or doesn't go does not seem to encompass this insight.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
6
I agree completely with @CaptainEmacs. This is actually a good question topic, unfortunately tied to a bad question-asker and bad evaluator-of-answers.
– R..
yesterday
6
@goblin - I'm anything but an ethicist, but to paraphrase the definition, rationalization is "attempting to justify actions with logical but inappropriate reasons." What I meant was that OP justifies (rationalizes) their act of piracy by reasoning that only the author deserves their share of the textbook's cost.
– cag51
yesterday
6
@goblin ...or that somehow by giving an arbitrary amount to someone, the piracy is magically transformed from simple theft to some kind of moral high-road ethical statement.
– A C
yesterday
|
show 9 more comments
up vote
80
down vote
With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.
Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)
Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.
- Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.
- If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.
- If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.
19
@James - (1) it still increases your exposure, though it may be negligible depending on how you do it; (2) I said you can't do it in a legal or ethical way. You seem to disagree, which is fine, but then why ask the question if you already know the answer? For that matter, being rude to those who make a good-faith effort to answer your question is not really ethical. But I will not engage further, good luck.
– cag51
yesterday
21
Upvoted, not least just because of James' comment that this is a poor answer. James seems to know better than others ("I don't think you know what the word can't means" or, in another posting "tosser" about a prof with whose philosophy he doesn't agree). James can do whatever he wants - but then, why he is asking these questions in SE if he is not interested to at least reflect about the opinions of others? Academics in many places must report pecuniary rewards possibly connected to their teaching. James knowledge about what goes or doesn't go does not seem to encompass this insight.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
6
I agree completely with @CaptainEmacs. This is actually a good question topic, unfortunately tied to a bad question-asker and bad evaluator-of-answers.
– R..
yesterday
6
@goblin - I'm anything but an ethicist, but to paraphrase the definition, rationalization is "attempting to justify actions with logical but inappropriate reasons." What I meant was that OP justifies (rationalizes) their act of piracy by reasoning that only the author deserves their share of the textbook's cost.
– cag51
yesterday
6
@goblin ...or that somehow by giving an arbitrary amount to someone, the piracy is magically transformed from simple theft to some kind of moral high-road ethical statement.
– A C
yesterday
|
show 9 more comments
up vote
80
down vote
up vote
80
down vote
With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.
Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)
Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.
- Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.
- If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.
- If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.
With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.
Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)
Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.
- Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.
- If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.
- If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
cag51
9,30132244
9,30132244
19
@James - (1) it still increases your exposure, though it may be negligible depending on how you do it; (2) I said you can't do it in a legal or ethical way. You seem to disagree, which is fine, but then why ask the question if you already know the answer? For that matter, being rude to those who make a good-faith effort to answer your question is not really ethical. But I will not engage further, good luck.
– cag51
yesterday
21
Upvoted, not least just because of James' comment that this is a poor answer. James seems to know better than others ("I don't think you know what the word can't means" or, in another posting "tosser" about a prof with whose philosophy he doesn't agree). James can do whatever he wants - but then, why he is asking these questions in SE if he is not interested to at least reflect about the opinions of others? Academics in many places must report pecuniary rewards possibly connected to their teaching. James knowledge about what goes or doesn't go does not seem to encompass this insight.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
6
I agree completely with @CaptainEmacs. This is actually a good question topic, unfortunately tied to a bad question-asker and bad evaluator-of-answers.
– R..
yesterday
6
@goblin - I'm anything but an ethicist, but to paraphrase the definition, rationalization is "attempting to justify actions with logical but inappropriate reasons." What I meant was that OP justifies (rationalizes) their act of piracy by reasoning that only the author deserves their share of the textbook's cost.
– cag51
yesterday
6
@goblin ...or that somehow by giving an arbitrary amount to someone, the piracy is magically transformed from simple theft to some kind of moral high-road ethical statement.
– A C
yesterday
|
show 9 more comments
19
@James - (1) it still increases your exposure, though it may be negligible depending on how you do it; (2) I said you can't do it in a legal or ethical way. You seem to disagree, which is fine, but then why ask the question if you already know the answer? For that matter, being rude to those who make a good-faith effort to answer your question is not really ethical. But I will not engage further, good luck.
– cag51
yesterday
21
Upvoted, not least just because of James' comment that this is a poor answer. James seems to know better than others ("I don't think you know what the word can't means" or, in another posting "tosser" about a prof with whose philosophy he doesn't agree). James can do whatever he wants - but then, why he is asking these questions in SE if he is not interested to at least reflect about the opinions of others? Academics in many places must report pecuniary rewards possibly connected to their teaching. James knowledge about what goes or doesn't go does not seem to encompass this insight.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
6
I agree completely with @CaptainEmacs. This is actually a good question topic, unfortunately tied to a bad question-asker and bad evaluator-of-answers.
– R..
yesterday
6
@goblin - I'm anything but an ethicist, but to paraphrase the definition, rationalization is "attempting to justify actions with logical but inappropriate reasons." What I meant was that OP justifies (rationalizes) their act of piracy by reasoning that only the author deserves their share of the textbook's cost.
– cag51
yesterday
6
@goblin ...or that somehow by giving an arbitrary amount to someone, the piracy is magically transformed from simple theft to some kind of moral high-road ethical statement.
– A C
yesterday
19
19
@James - (1) it still increases your exposure, though it may be negligible depending on how you do it; (2) I said you can't do it in a legal or ethical way. You seem to disagree, which is fine, but then why ask the question if you already know the answer? For that matter, being rude to those who make a good-faith effort to answer your question is not really ethical. But I will not engage further, good luck.
– cag51
yesterday
@James - (1) it still increases your exposure, though it may be negligible depending on how you do it; (2) I said you can't do it in a legal or ethical way. You seem to disagree, which is fine, but then why ask the question if you already know the answer? For that matter, being rude to those who make a good-faith effort to answer your question is not really ethical. But I will not engage further, good luck.
– cag51
yesterday
21
21
Upvoted, not least just because of James' comment that this is a poor answer. James seems to know better than others ("I don't think you know what the word can't means" or, in another posting "tosser" about a prof with whose philosophy he doesn't agree). James can do whatever he wants - but then, why he is asking these questions in SE if he is not interested to at least reflect about the opinions of others? Academics in many places must report pecuniary rewards possibly connected to their teaching. James knowledge about what goes or doesn't go does not seem to encompass this insight.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
Upvoted, not least just because of James' comment that this is a poor answer. James seems to know better than others ("I don't think you know what the word can't means" or, in another posting "tosser" about a prof with whose philosophy he doesn't agree). James can do whatever he wants - but then, why he is asking these questions in SE if he is not interested to at least reflect about the opinions of others? Academics in many places must report pecuniary rewards possibly connected to their teaching. James knowledge about what goes or doesn't go does not seem to encompass this insight.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
6
6
I agree completely with @CaptainEmacs. This is actually a good question topic, unfortunately tied to a bad question-asker and bad evaluator-of-answers.
– R..
yesterday
I agree completely with @CaptainEmacs. This is actually a good question topic, unfortunately tied to a bad question-asker and bad evaluator-of-answers.
– R..
yesterday
6
6
@goblin - I'm anything but an ethicist, but to paraphrase the definition, rationalization is "attempting to justify actions with logical but inappropriate reasons." What I meant was that OP justifies (rationalizes) their act of piracy by reasoning that only the author deserves their share of the textbook's cost.
– cag51
yesterday
@goblin - I'm anything but an ethicist, but to paraphrase the definition, rationalization is "attempting to justify actions with logical but inappropriate reasons." What I meant was that OP justifies (rationalizes) their act of piracy by reasoning that only the author deserves their share of the textbook's cost.
– cag51
yesterday
6
6
@goblin ...or that somehow by giving an arbitrary amount to someone, the piracy is magically transformed from simple theft to some kind of moral high-road ethical statement.
– A C
yesterday
@goblin ...or that somehow by giving an arbitrary amount to someone, the piracy is magically transformed from simple theft to some kind of moral high-road ethical statement.
– A C
yesterday
|
show 9 more comments
up vote
40
down vote
I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.
Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?
The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.
To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.
Thanks for the interesting question!
*Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.
15
The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday
7
What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
23 hours ago
5
@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
20 hours ago
1
"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
19 hours ago
2
cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
19 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
40
down vote
I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.
Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?
The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.
To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.
Thanks for the interesting question!
*Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.
15
The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday
7
What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
23 hours ago
5
@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
20 hours ago
1
"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
19 hours ago
2
cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
19 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
40
down vote
up vote
40
down vote
I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.
Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?
The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.
To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.
Thanks for the interesting question!
*Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.
I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.
With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?
I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
Well, I am a professor who authored a book.* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.
Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?
The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.
To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.
Thanks for the interesting question!
*Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.
edited 11 hours ago
answered yesterday
Dan Romik
80k20175269
80k20175269
15
The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday
7
What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
23 hours ago
5
@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
20 hours ago
1
"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
19 hours ago
2
cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
19 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
15
The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday
7
What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
23 hours ago
5
@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
20 hours ago
1
"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
19 hours ago
2
cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
19 hours ago
15
15
The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday
The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday
7
7
What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
23 hours ago
What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
23 hours ago
5
5
@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
20 hours ago
@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
20 hours ago
1
1
"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
19 hours ago
"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
19 hours ago
2
2
cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
19 hours ago
cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
19 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
21
down vote
After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:
The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.
They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.
You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.
The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.
In short then, I wouldn't do this.
However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.
4
This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday
4
@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday
9
@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday
1
@PatrickTrentin, I agree with your objection. However, note that I'm not claiming that people can be trusted to honestly appraise the value they get from any given good in the absence of any accountability mechanisms. I am saying that if you somehow know the value you're potentially going to get from the book, there's an objective answer to the question: is it ethical to steal this book?
– goblin
yesterday
2
@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
15 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
21
down vote
After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:
The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.
They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.
You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.
The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.
In short then, I wouldn't do this.
However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.
4
This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday
4
@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday
9
@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday
1
@PatrickTrentin, I agree with your objection. However, note that I'm not claiming that people can be trusted to honestly appraise the value they get from any given good in the absence of any accountability mechanisms. I am saying that if you somehow know the value you're potentially going to get from the book, there's an objective answer to the question: is it ethical to steal this book?
– goblin
yesterday
2
@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
15 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
21
down vote
up vote
21
down vote
After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:
The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.
They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.
You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.
The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.
In short then, I wouldn't do this.
However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.
After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:
The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.
They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.
You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.
The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.
In short then, I wouldn't do this.
However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
goblin
57828
57828
4
This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday
4
@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday
9
@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday
1
@PatrickTrentin, I agree with your objection. However, note that I'm not claiming that people can be trusted to honestly appraise the value they get from any given good in the absence of any accountability mechanisms. I am saying that if you somehow know the value you're potentially going to get from the book, there's an objective answer to the question: is it ethical to steal this book?
– goblin
yesterday
2
@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
15 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
4
This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday
4
@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday
9
@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday
1
@PatrickTrentin, I agree with your objection. However, note that I'm not claiming that people can be trusted to honestly appraise the value they get from any given good in the absence of any accountability mechanisms. I am saying that if you somehow know the value you're potentially going to get from the book, there's an objective answer to the question: is it ethical to steal this book?
– goblin
yesterday
2
@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
15 hours ago
4
4
This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday
This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday
4
4
@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday
@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday
9
9
@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday
@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday
1
1
@PatrickTrentin, I agree with your objection. However, note that I'm not claiming that people can be trusted to honestly appraise the value they get from any given good in the absence of any accountability mechanisms. I am saying that if you somehow know the value you're potentially going to get from the book, there's an objective answer to the question: is it ethical to steal this book?
– goblin
yesterday
@PatrickTrentin, I agree with your objection. However, note that I'm not claiming that people can be trusted to honestly appraise the value they get from any given good in the absence of any accountability mechanisms. I am saying that if you somehow know the value you're potentially going to get from the book, there's an objective answer to the question: is it ethical to steal this book?
– goblin
yesterday
2
2
@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
15 hours ago
@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
15 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
16
down vote
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.
My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.
1
This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
22 hours ago
I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
16
down vote
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.
My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.
1
This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
22 hours ago
I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
16
down vote
up vote
16
down vote
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.
My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.
If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?
I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.
My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.
answered 23 hours ago
Allure
23.4k1371121
23.4k1371121
1
This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
22 hours ago
I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
22 hours ago
I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
1 hour ago
1
1
This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
22 hours ago
This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
22 hours ago
I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
1 hour ago
I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
15
down vote
Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.
12
@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday
16
I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday
11
Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
20 hours ago
I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
1
Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
15
down vote
Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.
12
@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday
16
I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday
11
Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
20 hours ago
I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
1
Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
15
down vote
up vote
15
down vote
Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.
Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.
answered yesterday
Buffy
29.5k691156
29.5k691156
12
@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday
16
I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday
11
Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
20 hours ago
I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
1
Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
add a comment |
12
@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday
16
I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday
11
Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
20 hours ago
I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
1
Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
12
12
@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday
@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday
16
16
I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday
I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday
11
11
Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
20 hours ago
Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
20 hours ago
I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
1
1
Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.
Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.
2
I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
21 hours ago
2
See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
20 hours ago
1
Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
20 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
6
down vote
Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.
Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.
2
I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
21 hours ago
2
See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
20 hours ago
1
Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
20 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.
Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.
Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.
Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.
edited 10 hours ago
answered 21 hours ago
Jeffrey J Weimer
1,163110
1,163110
2
I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
21 hours ago
2
See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
20 hours ago
1
Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
20 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
2
I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
21 hours ago
2
See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
20 hours ago
1
Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
20 hours ago
2
2
I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
1
While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
21 hours ago
While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
21 hours ago
2
2
See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
1
Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
20 hours ago
Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
20 hours ago
1
1
Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
20 hours ago
Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
20 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.
The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.
I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.
Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
17 hours ago
2
Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
16 hours ago
2
@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
12 hours ago
3
@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.
The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.
I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.
Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
17 hours ago
2
Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
16 hours ago
2
@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
12 hours ago
3
@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.
The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.
I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.
You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.
The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.
I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.
answered 21 hours ago
gnasher729
1,22058
1,22058
Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
17 hours ago
2
Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
16 hours ago
2
@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
12 hours ago
3
@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
17 hours ago
2
Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
16 hours ago
2
@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
12 hours ago
3
@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
21 hours ago
1
1
@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
17 hours ago
@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
17 hours ago
2
2
Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
16 hours ago
Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
16 hours ago
2
2
@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
12 hours ago
@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
12 hours ago
3
3
@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.
My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.
At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.
My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.
At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.
My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.
At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.
It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.
My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.
At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.
answered 12 hours ago
Nate Eldredge
102k32290392
102k32290392
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.
New contributor
9
The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
21 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.
New contributor
9
The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
21 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.
New contributor
I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 22 hours ago
jeffmcneill
1173
1173
New contributor
New contributor
9
The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
21 hours ago
add a comment |
9
The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
21 hours ago
9
9
The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
21 hours ago
The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
21 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.
New contributor
2
This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
9 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.
New contributor
2
This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
9 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.
New contributor
No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 9 hours ago
arsyad power
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
2
This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
9 hours ago
add a comment |
2
This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
9 hours ago
2
2
This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
9 hours ago
This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
9 hours ago
add a comment |
protected by Massimo Ortolano 9 hours ago
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
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19
Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday
1
Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
5 hours ago
While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
4 hours ago
14
You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
2 hours ago
1
Note that in general authors very much appreciate the huge amount of work real publishers do. The whole publishers are leeches thing is pushed by vanity press places to con authors and is a bunch of crud. So, buy the book for real. It's the best for everyone. Including the sales stats for the professors book which are going to be worth way more to them than $10 as that determines whether they will ever get to write another. One of my favorite authors even has a FAQ about it because it is asked so much: antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/…
– John Meacham
1 hour ago