Why does the humidifier make a stove's flame orange?











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Blue flamesOrange flames



Just like this guy's, the color of my stove's flames were affected by the humidifier as well.



Why does this happen?
Is it a good thing or a bad thing ?










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  • 1




    Could you take a spectrum in some way? Easiest would be a transmission grating, which one can make from a (recordable) CD-disk by removing the metal layer (make a few scratches, then pull with Scotch tape). If it is sodium, then you should see a narrow band.
    – Pieter
    yesterday








  • 1




    You have accepted a IMO wrong answer. This is not sodium yellow, it is unsaturated reaction due to higher effective heat capacity of air due to water microdroplets (in combination with equipment that is designed to not work in tandem with a humidifyer. It could be done, but why.)
    – Stian Yttervik
    4 hours ago










  • @StianYttervik being right/wrong for this answer is far from having been proved. It's still waiting for someone with a humidifier+gas lighter/stove+spectroscope to confirm/refute this hypothesis.
    – Ruslan
    3 hours ago






  • 2




    @Ruslan Occam's razor would be a good start. The theory that makes the least assumptions should have preference awaiting test outcomes. A miniscule salt content in the air (we are talking ppb's) changing the color of a large flame? OR millions of tiny water droplets disturbing a delicate fuel/ox mix, when we know the water absorb heat, lowers adiabatic temperature and increases exhaust velocities? The simplest assumption is that the cause of water droplets is enough for the observed effect. Base the testing on that - don't buy a spectroscope just yet.
    – Stian Yttervik
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    @Ruslan Occam's razor nonetheless points out the theory which should be tested first. Water microdroplets is more than enough to produce yellow flames. This does not change with how you perceive a mobi-cam picture on your computer (mobile) screen. That is anectodtal at best - and easily countered by another person saying, to me it doesn't look like the sodium emission color at all. If you all want to test, that is fine, but to me it is fairly well explained by a simpler phenomena that requires less assumptions. And that is why I am of the opinion that the wrong answer has been accepted.
    – Stian Yttervik
    3 hours ago















up vote
34
down vote

favorite
5












Blue flamesOrange flames



Just like this guy's, the color of my stove's flames were affected by the humidifier as well.



Why does this happen?
Is it a good thing or a bad thing ?










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    Could you take a spectrum in some way? Easiest would be a transmission grating, which one can make from a (recordable) CD-disk by removing the metal layer (make a few scratches, then pull with Scotch tape). If it is sodium, then you should see a narrow band.
    – Pieter
    yesterday








  • 1




    You have accepted a IMO wrong answer. This is not sodium yellow, it is unsaturated reaction due to higher effective heat capacity of air due to water microdroplets (in combination with equipment that is designed to not work in tandem with a humidifyer. It could be done, but why.)
    – Stian Yttervik
    4 hours ago










  • @StianYttervik being right/wrong for this answer is far from having been proved. It's still waiting for someone with a humidifier+gas lighter/stove+spectroscope to confirm/refute this hypothesis.
    – Ruslan
    3 hours ago






  • 2




    @Ruslan Occam's razor would be a good start. The theory that makes the least assumptions should have preference awaiting test outcomes. A miniscule salt content in the air (we are talking ppb's) changing the color of a large flame? OR millions of tiny water droplets disturbing a delicate fuel/ox mix, when we know the water absorb heat, lowers adiabatic temperature and increases exhaust velocities? The simplest assumption is that the cause of water droplets is enough for the observed effect. Base the testing on that - don't buy a spectroscope just yet.
    – Stian Yttervik
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    @Ruslan Occam's razor nonetheless points out the theory which should be tested first. Water microdroplets is more than enough to produce yellow flames. This does not change with how you perceive a mobi-cam picture on your computer (mobile) screen. That is anectodtal at best - and easily countered by another person saying, to me it doesn't look like the sodium emission color at all. If you all want to test, that is fine, but to me it is fairly well explained by a simpler phenomena that requires less assumptions. And that is why I am of the opinion that the wrong answer has been accepted.
    – Stian Yttervik
    3 hours ago













up vote
34
down vote

favorite
5









up vote
34
down vote

favorite
5






5





Blue flamesOrange flames



Just like this guy's, the color of my stove's flames were affected by the humidifier as well.



Why does this happen?
Is it a good thing or a bad thing ?










share|cite|improve this question















Blue flamesOrange flames



Just like this guy's, the color of my stove's flames were affected by the humidifier as well.



Why does this happen?
Is it a good thing or a bad thing ?







visible-light everyday-life physical-chemistry combustion






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edited yesterday









Chair

3,37472033




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asked yesterday









Ilya Gazman

28329




28329








  • 1




    Could you take a spectrum in some way? Easiest would be a transmission grating, which one can make from a (recordable) CD-disk by removing the metal layer (make a few scratches, then pull with Scotch tape). If it is sodium, then you should see a narrow band.
    – Pieter
    yesterday








  • 1




    You have accepted a IMO wrong answer. This is not sodium yellow, it is unsaturated reaction due to higher effective heat capacity of air due to water microdroplets (in combination with equipment that is designed to not work in tandem with a humidifyer. It could be done, but why.)
    – Stian Yttervik
    4 hours ago










  • @StianYttervik being right/wrong for this answer is far from having been proved. It's still waiting for someone with a humidifier+gas lighter/stove+spectroscope to confirm/refute this hypothesis.
    – Ruslan
    3 hours ago






  • 2




    @Ruslan Occam's razor would be a good start. The theory that makes the least assumptions should have preference awaiting test outcomes. A miniscule salt content in the air (we are talking ppb's) changing the color of a large flame? OR millions of tiny water droplets disturbing a delicate fuel/ox mix, when we know the water absorb heat, lowers adiabatic temperature and increases exhaust velocities? The simplest assumption is that the cause of water droplets is enough for the observed effect. Base the testing on that - don't buy a spectroscope just yet.
    – Stian Yttervik
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    @Ruslan Occam's razor nonetheless points out the theory which should be tested first. Water microdroplets is more than enough to produce yellow flames. This does not change with how you perceive a mobi-cam picture on your computer (mobile) screen. That is anectodtal at best - and easily countered by another person saying, to me it doesn't look like the sodium emission color at all. If you all want to test, that is fine, but to me it is fairly well explained by a simpler phenomena that requires less assumptions. And that is why I am of the opinion that the wrong answer has been accepted.
    – Stian Yttervik
    3 hours ago














  • 1




    Could you take a spectrum in some way? Easiest would be a transmission grating, which one can make from a (recordable) CD-disk by removing the metal layer (make a few scratches, then pull with Scotch tape). If it is sodium, then you should see a narrow band.
    – Pieter
    yesterday








  • 1




    You have accepted a IMO wrong answer. This is not sodium yellow, it is unsaturated reaction due to higher effective heat capacity of air due to water microdroplets (in combination with equipment that is designed to not work in tandem with a humidifyer. It could be done, but why.)
    – Stian Yttervik
    4 hours ago










  • @StianYttervik being right/wrong for this answer is far from having been proved. It's still waiting for someone with a humidifier+gas lighter/stove+spectroscope to confirm/refute this hypothesis.
    – Ruslan
    3 hours ago






  • 2




    @Ruslan Occam's razor would be a good start. The theory that makes the least assumptions should have preference awaiting test outcomes. A miniscule salt content in the air (we are talking ppb's) changing the color of a large flame? OR millions of tiny water droplets disturbing a delicate fuel/ox mix, when we know the water absorb heat, lowers adiabatic temperature and increases exhaust velocities? The simplest assumption is that the cause of water droplets is enough for the observed effect. Base the testing on that - don't buy a spectroscope just yet.
    – Stian Yttervik
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    @Ruslan Occam's razor nonetheless points out the theory which should be tested first. Water microdroplets is more than enough to produce yellow flames. This does not change with how you perceive a mobi-cam picture on your computer (mobile) screen. That is anectodtal at best - and easily countered by another person saying, to me it doesn't look like the sodium emission color at all. If you all want to test, that is fine, but to me it is fairly well explained by a simpler phenomena that requires less assumptions. And that is why I am of the opinion that the wrong answer has been accepted.
    – Stian Yttervik
    3 hours ago








1




1




Could you take a spectrum in some way? Easiest would be a transmission grating, which one can make from a (recordable) CD-disk by removing the metal layer (make a few scratches, then pull with Scotch tape). If it is sodium, then you should see a narrow band.
– Pieter
yesterday






Could you take a spectrum in some way? Easiest would be a transmission grating, which one can make from a (recordable) CD-disk by removing the metal layer (make a few scratches, then pull with Scotch tape). If it is sodium, then you should see a narrow band.
– Pieter
yesterday






1




1




You have accepted a IMO wrong answer. This is not sodium yellow, it is unsaturated reaction due to higher effective heat capacity of air due to water microdroplets (in combination with equipment that is designed to not work in tandem with a humidifyer. It could be done, but why.)
– Stian Yttervik
4 hours ago




You have accepted a IMO wrong answer. This is not sodium yellow, it is unsaturated reaction due to higher effective heat capacity of air due to water microdroplets (in combination with equipment that is designed to not work in tandem with a humidifyer. It could be done, but why.)
– Stian Yttervik
4 hours ago












@StianYttervik being right/wrong for this answer is far from having been proved. It's still waiting for someone with a humidifier+gas lighter/stove+spectroscope to confirm/refute this hypothesis.
– Ruslan
3 hours ago




@StianYttervik being right/wrong for this answer is far from having been proved. It's still waiting for someone with a humidifier+gas lighter/stove+spectroscope to confirm/refute this hypothesis.
– Ruslan
3 hours ago




2




2




@Ruslan Occam's razor would be a good start. The theory that makes the least assumptions should have preference awaiting test outcomes. A miniscule salt content in the air (we are talking ppb's) changing the color of a large flame? OR millions of tiny water droplets disturbing a delicate fuel/ox mix, when we know the water absorb heat, lowers adiabatic temperature and increases exhaust velocities? The simplest assumption is that the cause of water droplets is enough for the observed effect. Base the testing on that - don't buy a spectroscope just yet.
– Stian Yttervik
3 hours ago




@Ruslan Occam's razor would be a good start. The theory that makes the least assumptions should have preference awaiting test outcomes. A miniscule salt content in the air (we are talking ppb's) changing the color of a large flame? OR millions of tiny water droplets disturbing a delicate fuel/ox mix, when we know the water absorb heat, lowers adiabatic temperature and increases exhaust velocities? The simplest assumption is that the cause of water droplets is enough for the observed effect. Base the testing on that - don't buy a spectroscope just yet.
– Stian Yttervik
3 hours ago




1




1




@Ruslan Occam's razor nonetheless points out the theory which should be tested first. Water microdroplets is more than enough to produce yellow flames. This does not change with how you perceive a mobi-cam picture on your computer (mobile) screen. That is anectodtal at best - and easily countered by another person saying, to me it doesn't look like the sodium emission color at all. If you all want to test, that is fine, but to me it is fairly well explained by a simpler phenomena that requires less assumptions. And that is why I am of the opinion that the wrong answer has been accepted.
– Stian Yttervik
3 hours ago




@Ruslan Occam's razor nonetheless points out the theory which should be tested first. Water microdroplets is more than enough to produce yellow flames. This does not change with how you perceive a mobi-cam picture on your computer (mobile) screen. That is anectodtal at best - and easily countered by another person saying, to me it doesn't look like the sodium emission color at all. If you all want to test, that is fine, but to me it is fairly well explained by a simpler phenomena that requires less assumptions. And that is why I am of the opinion that the wrong answer has been accepted.
– Stian Yttervik
3 hours ago










5 Answers
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up vote
41
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accepted










The explanation I furnish below will stand or fall on the outcome of an experiment I and others here have suggested which is also outlined in my response. I promise to edit or delete my answer per the recommendations of the moderators here if that experiment shows it to be wrong.



Humidifiers that operate on the "cold" principle- mixing tiny droplets of water thrown from the blades of a fan with a blast of air- produce a mist of water vapor-enriched air mixed with the partially-dried remains of water droplets that are enriched in salts by evaporative attrition.



Those salt-enriched specks, when drawn into a hot gas flame, then emit light at frequencies corresponding to the line spectra of the salt constituents. In the case of sodium chloride (the most common salt in tap water), the sodium produces a yellow-orange glow when it hits the flame.



This phenomenon forms the basis of a chemical analysis technique called flame spectroscopy, in which a platinum wire is dipped into a solution containing an unknown mixture of salts, and then stuck into a hot flame. The colors emitted as the salts in the solution are heated are then used to identify the chemical constituents of those salts.



(Since sodium is ubiquitous, and this test is so sensitive to it, the platinum wire must be dipped in hydrochloric acid, heated to redness, quenched in the acid again and reheated several times to rid it of sodium before running the test on the sample.)



This mechanism can be ruled in our out by observing the flame through a grating that separates out the primary sodium line and I invite anyone here who has a gas range (which I do not) and a grating (which I also do not, sorry) to perform the experiment and report back to us here.



Since any dust in the kitchen would likely have salt in it, if the humidifier fan is blowing dust into the flame it would make the flame yellow as well. This can be tested by running the humidifier without water in it.






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  • 7




    How much salt is in your tap water? I find it unlikely that drinkable tap water would be brackish enough to show noticeable sodium colouring in a flame.
    – Anders Sandberg
    yesterday






  • 8




    @AndersSandberg: Then again, the sodium spectral line is very strong, and it takes very little salt to make it show up nice and bright. Back when I was doing flame tests in first-year inorganic chemistry lab, we'd spend quite a bit of time making sure to remove all sodium from the sample before even trying to test for any other elements, because if there was even the slightest trace of sodium left, it would overwhelm pretty much everything else. Oh, and don't touch the platinum wire with your fingers after cleaning it, because human sweat has lots of sodium in it.
    – Ilmari Karonen
    yesterday






  • 3




    This answer is almost certainly wrong. You can get exactly the same effect by holding the tip of a knife in the flame, or any other object.
    – Maury Markowitz
    22 hours ago






  • 3




    With all respect, the answer is almost certainty incorrect. The orange flame color is obtained in a gas flame in heating tubes in restaurants and public plazas by fuel-rich mixing. I took a pocket spectroscope to these, and their spectrum is indeed continuous. This is a thermal radiation from soot, not the Na line. I live near the ocean in a so salty air that all my tools corrode if I don't oil them for storage, as do guitar strings--and still my range flame is blue. I am very, very skeptical the OP's humidifier concentrates trace Na+ in air to express its telltale line suddenly so brightly!
    – kkm
    13 hours ago






  • 3




    @kkm : Then that simply gives two competing explanations, each of which would seem to produce the same result with a naive observing device like the eye and/or digital camera. The only way this could be analyzed more conclusively is, thus, to conduct an empirical investigation with an experiment to try and reproduce the effect as achieved with a humidifier nearby as in the OP,with spectrometer present to see if it is line emission or continuous (thermal) spectrum in that particular circumstance. It's entirely possible for the same (esp. naively) observed effect to have multiple etiologies.
    – The_Sympathizer
    12 hours ago




















up vote
18
down vote













The water cools the flame to the point where you get incomplete combustion, just like a candle. The yellow light is from glowing carbon, a.k.a. soot.






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  • 4




    Soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm. So this would be easy to decide experimentally. Look at the flame through a grating. Or a CD disk.
    – Pieter
    yesterday








  • 2




    Also, sodium yellow is a fairly recognizable flame colour. The more orange colour in the photo, assuming camera colour correction have not completely changed it, looks much more like incomplete combustion than sodium to me.
    – Anders Sandberg
    yesterday










  • the original Golden Gate Bridge overhead lights were low-pressure sodium, which produced an intense orange color that is very similar to the orange tint in the OP's photo. modern high-pressure sodium lights are whiter in color because they have a thermal spectrum superimposed on the line spectrum.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago










  • Natural gas is CH4 and its combustion goes to completion without producing significant amounts of carbon which would tint the flame yellow and orange, as in the case of a candle that is burning paraffin.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago










  • @AndersSandberg the camera often lies! (Though I agree with your conclusion)
    – Chris H
    3 hours ago


















up vote
5
down vote













The accepted answer is not correct.



I have a gas stove in the basement which I have to do periodic maintenance on. This requires you to remove a bunch of fake logs, which are made out of some very lightweight material, I think something similar to rockwool but more solid. After maintenance I turn it on to be sure it's still working, and noticed that if the "logs" are not in, the flame is pure blue. This piqued my interest, so I replaced the logs and noticed that the flame turns orange after a short period, which corresponds visibly to the "logs" beginning to glow red. For instance, here is the stove shortly after starting (as quickly as I could run from the thermostat to the stove) and then again about two minutes later:



enter image description hereenter image description here



Not a huge difference, but you can see it. The flame along the front has no "log" over it so it remains blue. There used to be some rockwool insulation here but I removed it thinking it was left over from the installation.



It is not entirely clear how the "logs" do this, but it is clear this is purely due to the temperature of the flame. For further proof, I took these two photos of our cooktop:



enter image description hereenter image description here



As you can see, simply inserting something cold into the flame causes it to turn orange. Now a huge effect here either, but that's because I was one-handing the photo and the knife isn't properly positioned. The humidifier does this by inserting a mist of water over the entire area.






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  • Your theory is plausible, but your evidence is also explainable by sodium; the knife will have sodium on it (and is made of a bunch of other metals). How do you know it's the temperature and not the sodium (or other chemical) in both cases? Does the effect go away if you preheat the knife in the oven?
    – Richard Tingle
    22 hours ago








  • 6




    "the knife will have sodium" - of come on, at the absolute best-case limit it will not be enough to be visible, and especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long. And what do you think is happening in the stove? Those "logs" are almost 30 years old and burn orange as long as the stove is running. The sodium explaination is completely implausible in both instances, or the hundreds of other objects you might try. Have you actually tried this, with anything?
    – Maury Markowitz
    21 hours ago












  • Ilmari suggests the sodium line is very strong. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/441648/…. And as long as the knife and logs continue to exist they are clearly made of something. Not saying you're wrong, just that you've not really proved your theory right either (and of course I haven't tried it, I'm neither the OP nor an answerer)
    – Richard Tingle
    21 hours ago












  • Not to mention the fact that the question isn't about a knife or logs but about a dehumifier which looks to have distinctly red flames
    – Richard Tingle
    21 hours ago








  • 2




    @MauryMarkowitz "especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long" .. if the temperature of the object really was the reason, shouldn't it have heated up enough for the flame to lose that orange colour by then?
    – muru
    5 hours ago


















up vote
1
down vote













Little bit of every thing here. But I would certainly not ignore CO. Remember gas comes out under pressure, and if any passes through the heat of the flame before being completely oxidized, you get CO. Presence of sodium could contribute, I would test with distilled water first. But water droplets would cool the flame faster by drawing heat to evaporate. Get a CO meter, and open the windows!






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    up vote
    -1
    down vote













    The humidifier increases the percentage of water vapour in the air, which decreases the percentage of oxygen. The deficit of oxygen makes the burning of the gas less efficient, with the orange flame that also indicates a higher amount of CO in the exhaust gas.



    Make sure to increase ventilation when you see orange tips on the flames.






    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 1




      I doubt it, I find the explanation with the salt more likely. But this is easy to check experimentally by taking a spectrum: soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm.
      – Pieter
      yesterday








    • 6




      The humidifier surely isn't displacing any significant amount of oxygen.
      – David Richerby
      yesterday






    • 1




      If you're going to disagree with me, do it with metrics.
      – Douglas Held
      20 hours ago






    • 3




      That's why there are so many reports of humidifier deaths, right?
      – immibis
      9 hours ago










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    5 Answers
    5






    active

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    5 Answers
    5






    active

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    votes









    active

    oldest

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    active

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    votes








    up vote
    41
    down vote



    accepted










    The explanation I furnish below will stand or fall on the outcome of an experiment I and others here have suggested which is also outlined in my response. I promise to edit or delete my answer per the recommendations of the moderators here if that experiment shows it to be wrong.



    Humidifiers that operate on the "cold" principle- mixing tiny droplets of water thrown from the blades of a fan with a blast of air- produce a mist of water vapor-enriched air mixed with the partially-dried remains of water droplets that are enriched in salts by evaporative attrition.



    Those salt-enriched specks, when drawn into a hot gas flame, then emit light at frequencies corresponding to the line spectra of the salt constituents. In the case of sodium chloride (the most common salt in tap water), the sodium produces a yellow-orange glow when it hits the flame.



    This phenomenon forms the basis of a chemical analysis technique called flame spectroscopy, in which a platinum wire is dipped into a solution containing an unknown mixture of salts, and then stuck into a hot flame. The colors emitted as the salts in the solution are heated are then used to identify the chemical constituents of those salts.



    (Since sodium is ubiquitous, and this test is so sensitive to it, the platinum wire must be dipped in hydrochloric acid, heated to redness, quenched in the acid again and reheated several times to rid it of sodium before running the test on the sample.)



    This mechanism can be ruled in our out by observing the flame through a grating that separates out the primary sodium line and I invite anyone here who has a gas range (which I do not) and a grating (which I also do not, sorry) to perform the experiment and report back to us here.



    Since any dust in the kitchen would likely have salt in it, if the humidifier fan is blowing dust into the flame it would make the flame yellow as well. This can be tested by running the humidifier without water in it.






    share|cite|improve this answer



















    • 7




      How much salt is in your tap water? I find it unlikely that drinkable tap water would be brackish enough to show noticeable sodium colouring in a flame.
      – Anders Sandberg
      yesterday






    • 8




      @AndersSandberg: Then again, the sodium spectral line is very strong, and it takes very little salt to make it show up nice and bright. Back when I was doing flame tests in first-year inorganic chemistry lab, we'd spend quite a bit of time making sure to remove all sodium from the sample before even trying to test for any other elements, because if there was even the slightest trace of sodium left, it would overwhelm pretty much everything else. Oh, and don't touch the platinum wire with your fingers after cleaning it, because human sweat has lots of sodium in it.
      – Ilmari Karonen
      yesterday






    • 3




      This answer is almost certainly wrong. You can get exactly the same effect by holding the tip of a knife in the flame, or any other object.
      – Maury Markowitz
      22 hours ago






    • 3




      With all respect, the answer is almost certainty incorrect. The orange flame color is obtained in a gas flame in heating tubes in restaurants and public plazas by fuel-rich mixing. I took a pocket spectroscope to these, and their spectrum is indeed continuous. This is a thermal radiation from soot, not the Na line. I live near the ocean in a so salty air that all my tools corrode if I don't oil them for storage, as do guitar strings--and still my range flame is blue. I am very, very skeptical the OP's humidifier concentrates trace Na+ in air to express its telltale line suddenly so brightly!
      – kkm
      13 hours ago






    • 3




      @kkm : Then that simply gives two competing explanations, each of which would seem to produce the same result with a naive observing device like the eye and/or digital camera. The only way this could be analyzed more conclusively is, thus, to conduct an empirical investigation with an experiment to try and reproduce the effect as achieved with a humidifier nearby as in the OP,with spectrometer present to see if it is line emission or continuous (thermal) spectrum in that particular circumstance. It's entirely possible for the same (esp. naively) observed effect to have multiple etiologies.
      – The_Sympathizer
      12 hours ago

















    up vote
    41
    down vote



    accepted










    The explanation I furnish below will stand or fall on the outcome of an experiment I and others here have suggested which is also outlined in my response. I promise to edit or delete my answer per the recommendations of the moderators here if that experiment shows it to be wrong.



    Humidifiers that operate on the "cold" principle- mixing tiny droplets of water thrown from the blades of a fan with a blast of air- produce a mist of water vapor-enriched air mixed with the partially-dried remains of water droplets that are enriched in salts by evaporative attrition.



    Those salt-enriched specks, when drawn into a hot gas flame, then emit light at frequencies corresponding to the line spectra of the salt constituents. In the case of sodium chloride (the most common salt in tap water), the sodium produces a yellow-orange glow when it hits the flame.



    This phenomenon forms the basis of a chemical analysis technique called flame spectroscopy, in which a platinum wire is dipped into a solution containing an unknown mixture of salts, and then stuck into a hot flame. The colors emitted as the salts in the solution are heated are then used to identify the chemical constituents of those salts.



    (Since sodium is ubiquitous, and this test is so sensitive to it, the platinum wire must be dipped in hydrochloric acid, heated to redness, quenched in the acid again and reheated several times to rid it of sodium before running the test on the sample.)



    This mechanism can be ruled in our out by observing the flame through a grating that separates out the primary sodium line and I invite anyone here who has a gas range (which I do not) and a grating (which I also do not, sorry) to perform the experiment and report back to us here.



    Since any dust in the kitchen would likely have salt in it, if the humidifier fan is blowing dust into the flame it would make the flame yellow as well. This can be tested by running the humidifier without water in it.






    share|cite|improve this answer



















    • 7




      How much salt is in your tap water? I find it unlikely that drinkable tap water would be brackish enough to show noticeable sodium colouring in a flame.
      – Anders Sandberg
      yesterday






    • 8




      @AndersSandberg: Then again, the sodium spectral line is very strong, and it takes very little salt to make it show up nice and bright. Back when I was doing flame tests in first-year inorganic chemistry lab, we'd spend quite a bit of time making sure to remove all sodium from the sample before even trying to test for any other elements, because if there was even the slightest trace of sodium left, it would overwhelm pretty much everything else. Oh, and don't touch the platinum wire with your fingers after cleaning it, because human sweat has lots of sodium in it.
      – Ilmari Karonen
      yesterday






    • 3




      This answer is almost certainly wrong. You can get exactly the same effect by holding the tip of a knife in the flame, or any other object.
      – Maury Markowitz
      22 hours ago






    • 3




      With all respect, the answer is almost certainty incorrect. The orange flame color is obtained in a gas flame in heating tubes in restaurants and public plazas by fuel-rich mixing. I took a pocket spectroscope to these, and their spectrum is indeed continuous. This is a thermal radiation from soot, not the Na line. I live near the ocean in a so salty air that all my tools corrode if I don't oil them for storage, as do guitar strings--and still my range flame is blue. I am very, very skeptical the OP's humidifier concentrates trace Na+ in air to express its telltale line suddenly so brightly!
      – kkm
      13 hours ago






    • 3




      @kkm : Then that simply gives two competing explanations, each of which would seem to produce the same result with a naive observing device like the eye and/or digital camera. The only way this could be analyzed more conclusively is, thus, to conduct an empirical investigation with an experiment to try and reproduce the effect as achieved with a humidifier nearby as in the OP,with spectrometer present to see if it is line emission or continuous (thermal) spectrum in that particular circumstance. It's entirely possible for the same (esp. naively) observed effect to have multiple etiologies.
      – The_Sympathizer
      12 hours ago















    up vote
    41
    down vote



    accepted







    up vote
    41
    down vote



    accepted






    The explanation I furnish below will stand or fall on the outcome of an experiment I and others here have suggested which is also outlined in my response. I promise to edit or delete my answer per the recommendations of the moderators here if that experiment shows it to be wrong.



    Humidifiers that operate on the "cold" principle- mixing tiny droplets of water thrown from the blades of a fan with a blast of air- produce a mist of water vapor-enriched air mixed with the partially-dried remains of water droplets that are enriched in salts by evaporative attrition.



    Those salt-enriched specks, when drawn into a hot gas flame, then emit light at frequencies corresponding to the line spectra of the salt constituents. In the case of sodium chloride (the most common salt in tap water), the sodium produces a yellow-orange glow when it hits the flame.



    This phenomenon forms the basis of a chemical analysis technique called flame spectroscopy, in which a platinum wire is dipped into a solution containing an unknown mixture of salts, and then stuck into a hot flame. The colors emitted as the salts in the solution are heated are then used to identify the chemical constituents of those salts.



    (Since sodium is ubiquitous, and this test is so sensitive to it, the platinum wire must be dipped in hydrochloric acid, heated to redness, quenched in the acid again and reheated several times to rid it of sodium before running the test on the sample.)



    This mechanism can be ruled in our out by observing the flame through a grating that separates out the primary sodium line and I invite anyone here who has a gas range (which I do not) and a grating (which I also do not, sorry) to perform the experiment and report back to us here.



    Since any dust in the kitchen would likely have salt in it, if the humidifier fan is blowing dust into the flame it would make the flame yellow as well. This can be tested by running the humidifier without water in it.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    The explanation I furnish below will stand or fall on the outcome of an experiment I and others here have suggested which is also outlined in my response. I promise to edit or delete my answer per the recommendations of the moderators here if that experiment shows it to be wrong.



    Humidifiers that operate on the "cold" principle- mixing tiny droplets of water thrown from the blades of a fan with a blast of air- produce a mist of water vapor-enriched air mixed with the partially-dried remains of water droplets that are enriched in salts by evaporative attrition.



    Those salt-enriched specks, when drawn into a hot gas flame, then emit light at frequencies corresponding to the line spectra of the salt constituents. In the case of sodium chloride (the most common salt in tap water), the sodium produces a yellow-orange glow when it hits the flame.



    This phenomenon forms the basis of a chemical analysis technique called flame spectroscopy, in which a platinum wire is dipped into a solution containing an unknown mixture of salts, and then stuck into a hot flame. The colors emitted as the salts in the solution are heated are then used to identify the chemical constituents of those salts.



    (Since sodium is ubiquitous, and this test is so sensitive to it, the platinum wire must be dipped in hydrochloric acid, heated to redness, quenched in the acid again and reheated several times to rid it of sodium before running the test on the sample.)



    This mechanism can be ruled in our out by observing the flame through a grating that separates out the primary sodium line and I invite anyone here who has a gas range (which I do not) and a grating (which I also do not, sorry) to perform the experiment and report back to us here.



    Since any dust in the kitchen would likely have salt in it, if the humidifier fan is blowing dust into the flame it would make the flame yellow as well. This can be tested by running the humidifier without water in it.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited 2 hours ago

























    answered yesterday









    niels nielsen

    13.2k42240




    13.2k42240








    • 7




      How much salt is in your tap water? I find it unlikely that drinkable tap water would be brackish enough to show noticeable sodium colouring in a flame.
      – Anders Sandberg
      yesterday






    • 8




      @AndersSandberg: Then again, the sodium spectral line is very strong, and it takes very little salt to make it show up nice and bright. Back when I was doing flame tests in first-year inorganic chemistry lab, we'd spend quite a bit of time making sure to remove all sodium from the sample before even trying to test for any other elements, because if there was even the slightest trace of sodium left, it would overwhelm pretty much everything else. Oh, and don't touch the platinum wire with your fingers after cleaning it, because human sweat has lots of sodium in it.
      – Ilmari Karonen
      yesterday






    • 3




      This answer is almost certainly wrong. You can get exactly the same effect by holding the tip of a knife in the flame, or any other object.
      – Maury Markowitz
      22 hours ago






    • 3




      With all respect, the answer is almost certainty incorrect. The orange flame color is obtained in a gas flame in heating tubes in restaurants and public plazas by fuel-rich mixing. I took a pocket spectroscope to these, and their spectrum is indeed continuous. This is a thermal radiation from soot, not the Na line. I live near the ocean in a so salty air that all my tools corrode if I don't oil them for storage, as do guitar strings--and still my range flame is blue. I am very, very skeptical the OP's humidifier concentrates trace Na+ in air to express its telltale line suddenly so brightly!
      – kkm
      13 hours ago






    • 3




      @kkm : Then that simply gives two competing explanations, each of which would seem to produce the same result with a naive observing device like the eye and/or digital camera. The only way this could be analyzed more conclusively is, thus, to conduct an empirical investigation with an experiment to try and reproduce the effect as achieved with a humidifier nearby as in the OP,with spectrometer present to see if it is line emission or continuous (thermal) spectrum in that particular circumstance. It's entirely possible for the same (esp. naively) observed effect to have multiple etiologies.
      – The_Sympathizer
      12 hours ago
















    • 7




      How much salt is in your tap water? I find it unlikely that drinkable tap water would be brackish enough to show noticeable sodium colouring in a flame.
      – Anders Sandberg
      yesterday






    • 8




      @AndersSandberg: Then again, the sodium spectral line is very strong, and it takes very little salt to make it show up nice and bright. Back when I was doing flame tests in first-year inorganic chemistry lab, we'd spend quite a bit of time making sure to remove all sodium from the sample before even trying to test for any other elements, because if there was even the slightest trace of sodium left, it would overwhelm pretty much everything else. Oh, and don't touch the platinum wire with your fingers after cleaning it, because human sweat has lots of sodium in it.
      – Ilmari Karonen
      yesterday






    • 3




      This answer is almost certainly wrong. You can get exactly the same effect by holding the tip of a knife in the flame, or any other object.
      – Maury Markowitz
      22 hours ago






    • 3




      With all respect, the answer is almost certainty incorrect. The orange flame color is obtained in a gas flame in heating tubes in restaurants and public plazas by fuel-rich mixing. I took a pocket spectroscope to these, and their spectrum is indeed continuous. This is a thermal radiation from soot, not the Na line. I live near the ocean in a so salty air that all my tools corrode if I don't oil them for storage, as do guitar strings--and still my range flame is blue. I am very, very skeptical the OP's humidifier concentrates trace Na+ in air to express its telltale line suddenly so brightly!
      – kkm
      13 hours ago






    • 3




      @kkm : Then that simply gives two competing explanations, each of which would seem to produce the same result with a naive observing device like the eye and/or digital camera. The only way this could be analyzed more conclusively is, thus, to conduct an empirical investigation with an experiment to try and reproduce the effect as achieved with a humidifier nearby as in the OP,with spectrometer present to see if it is line emission or continuous (thermal) spectrum in that particular circumstance. It's entirely possible for the same (esp. naively) observed effect to have multiple etiologies.
      – The_Sympathizer
      12 hours ago










    7




    7




    How much salt is in your tap water? I find it unlikely that drinkable tap water would be brackish enough to show noticeable sodium colouring in a flame.
    – Anders Sandberg
    yesterday




    How much salt is in your tap water? I find it unlikely that drinkable tap water would be brackish enough to show noticeable sodium colouring in a flame.
    – Anders Sandberg
    yesterday




    8




    8




    @AndersSandberg: Then again, the sodium spectral line is very strong, and it takes very little salt to make it show up nice and bright. Back when I was doing flame tests in first-year inorganic chemistry lab, we'd spend quite a bit of time making sure to remove all sodium from the sample before even trying to test for any other elements, because if there was even the slightest trace of sodium left, it would overwhelm pretty much everything else. Oh, and don't touch the platinum wire with your fingers after cleaning it, because human sweat has lots of sodium in it.
    – Ilmari Karonen
    yesterday




    @AndersSandberg: Then again, the sodium spectral line is very strong, and it takes very little salt to make it show up nice and bright. Back when I was doing flame tests in first-year inorganic chemistry lab, we'd spend quite a bit of time making sure to remove all sodium from the sample before even trying to test for any other elements, because if there was even the slightest trace of sodium left, it would overwhelm pretty much everything else. Oh, and don't touch the platinum wire with your fingers after cleaning it, because human sweat has lots of sodium in it.
    – Ilmari Karonen
    yesterday




    3




    3




    This answer is almost certainly wrong. You can get exactly the same effect by holding the tip of a knife in the flame, or any other object.
    – Maury Markowitz
    22 hours ago




    This answer is almost certainly wrong. You can get exactly the same effect by holding the tip of a knife in the flame, or any other object.
    – Maury Markowitz
    22 hours ago




    3




    3




    With all respect, the answer is almost certainty incorrect. The orange flame color is obtained in a gas flame in heating tubes in restaurants and public plazas by fuel-rich mixing. I took a pocket spectroscope to these, and their spectrum is indeed continuous. This is a thermal radiation from soot, not the Na line. I live near the ocean in a so salty air that all my tools corrode if I don't oil them for storage, as do guitar strings--and still my range flame is blue. I am very, very skeptical the OP's humidifier concentrates trace Na+ in air to express its telltale line suddenly so brightly!
    – kkm
    13 hours ago




    With all respect, the answer is almost certainty incorrect. The orange flame color is obtained in a gas flame in heating tubes in restaurants and public plazas by fuel-rich mixing. I took a pocket spectroscope to these, and their spectrum is indeed continuous. This is a thermal radiation from soot, not the Na line. I live near the ocean in a so salty air that all my tools corrode if I don't oil them for storage, as do guitar strings--and still my range flame is blue. I am very, very skeptical the OP's humidifier concentrates trace Na+ in air to express its telltale line suddenly so brightly!
    – kkm
    13 hours ago




    3




    3




    @kkm : Then that simply gives two competing explanations, each of which would seem to produce the same result with a naive observing device like the eye and/or digital camera. The only way this could be analyzed more conclusively is, thus, to conduct an empirical investigation with an experiment to try and reproduce the effect as achieved with a humidifier nearby as in the OP,with spectrometer present to see if it is line emission or continuous (thermal) spectrum in that particular circumstance. It's entirely possible for the same (esp. naively) observed effect to have multiple etiologies.
    – The_Sympathizer
    12 hours ago






    @kkm : Then that simply gives two competing explanations, each of which would seem to produce the same result with a naive observing device like the eye and/or digital camera. The only way this could be analyzed more conclusively is, thus, to conduct an empirical investigation with an experiment to try and reproduce the effect as achieved with a humidifier nearby as in the OP,with spectrometer present to see if it is line emission or continuous (thermal) spectrum in that particular circumstance. It's entirely possible for the same (esp. naively) observed effect to have multiple etiologies.
    – The_Sympathizer
    12 hours ago












    up vote
    18
    down vote













    The water cools the flame to the point where you get incomplete combustion, just like a candle. The yellow light is from glowing carbon, a.k.a. soot.






    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 4




      Soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm. So this would be easy to decide experimentally. Look at the flame through a grating. Or a CD disk.
      – Pieter
      yesterday








    • 2




      Also, sodium yellow is a fairly recognizable flame colour. The more orange colour in the photo, assuming camera colour correction have not completely changed it, looks much more like incomplete combustion than sodium to me.
      – Anders Sandberg
      yesterday










    • the original Golden Gate Bridge overhead lights were low-pressure sodium, which produced an intense orange color that is very similar to the orange tint in the OP's photo. modern high-pressure sodium lights are whiter in color because they have a thermal spectrum superimposed on the line spectrum.
      – niels nielsen
      17 hours ago










    • Natural gas is CH4 and its combustion goes to completion without producing significant amounts of carbon which would tint the flame yellow and orange, as in the case of a candle that is burning paraffin.
      – niels nielsen
      17 hours ago










    • @AndersSandberg the camera often lies! (Though I agree with your conclusion)
      – Chris H
      3 hours ago















    up vote
    18
    down vote













    The water cools the flame to the point where you get incomplete combustion, just like a candle. The yellow light is from glowing carbon, a.k.a. soot.






    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 4




      Soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm. So this would be easy to decide experimentally. Look at the flame through a grating. Or a CD disk.
      – Pieter
      yesterday








    • 2




      Also, sodium yellow is a fairly recognizable flame colour. The more orange colour in the photo, assuming camera colour correction have not completely changed it, looks much more like incomplete combustion than sodium to me.
      – Anders Sandberg
      yesterday










    • the original Golden Gate Bridge overhead lights were low-pressure sodium, which produced an intense orange color that is very similar to the orange tint in the OP's photo. modern high-pressure sodium lights are whiter in color because they have a thermal spectrum superimposed on the line spectrum.
      – niels nielsen
      17 hours ago










    • Natural gas is CH4 and its combustion goes to completion without producing significant amounts of carbon which would tint the flame yellow and orange, as in the case of a candle that is burning paraffin.
      – niels nielsen
      17 hours ago










    • @AndersSandberg the camera often lies! (Though I agree with your conclusion)
      – Chris H
      3 hours ago













    up vote
    18
    down vote










    up vote
    18
    down vote









    The water cools the flame to the point where you get incomplete combustion, just like a candle. The yellow light is from glowing carbon, a.k.a. soot.






    share|cite|improve this answer












    The water cools the flame to the point where you get incomplete combustion, just like a candle. The yellow light is from glowing carbon, a.k.a. soot.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered yesterday









    StessenJ

    1,094124




    1,094124








    • 4




      Soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm. So this would be easy to decide experimentally. Look at the flame through a grating. Or a CD disk.
      – Pieter
      yesterday








    • 2




      Also, sodium yellow is a fairly recognizable flame colour. The more orange colour in the photo, assuming camera colour correction have not completely changed it, looks much more like incomplete combustion than sodium to me.
      – Anders Sandberg
      yesterday










    • the original Golden Gate Bridge overhead lights were low-pressure sodium, which produced an intense orange color that is very similar to the orange tint in the OP's photo. modern high-pressure sodium lights are whiter in color because they have a thermal spectrum superimposed on the line spectrum.
      – niels nielsen
      17 hours ago










    • Natural gas is CH4 and its combustion goes to completion without producing significant amounts of carbon which would tint the flame yellow and orange, as in the case of a candle that is burning paraffin.
      – niels nielsen
      17 hours ago










    • @AndersSandberg the camera often lies! (Though I agree with your conclusion)
      – Chris H
      3 hours ago














    • 4




      Soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm. So this would be easy to decide experimentally. Look at the flame through a grating. Or a CD disk.
      – Pieter
      yesterday








    • 2




      Also, sodium yellow is a fairly recognizable flame colour. The more orange colour in the photo, assuming camera colour correction have not completely changed it, looks much more like incomplete combustion than sodium to me.
      – Anders Sandberg
      yesterday










    • the original Golden Gate Bridge overhead lights were low-pressure sodium, which produced an intense orange color that is very similar to the orange tint in the OP's photo. modern high-pressure sodium lights are whiter in color because they have a thermal spectrum superimposed on the line spectrum.
      – niels nielsen
      17 hours ago










    • Natural gas is CH4 and its combustion goes to completion without producing significant amounts of carbon which would tint the flame yellow and orange, as in the case of a candle that is burning paraffin.
      – niels nielsen
      17 hours ago










    • @AndersSandberg the camera often lies! (Though I agree with your conclusion)
      – Chris H
      3 hours ago








    4




    4




    Soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm. So this would be easy to decide experimentally. Look at the flame through a grating. Or a CD disk.
    – Pieter
    yesterday






    Soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm. So this would be easy to decide experimentally. Look at the flame through a grating. Or a CD disk.
    – Pieter
    yesterday






    2




    2




    Also, sodium yellow is a fairly recognizable flame colour. The more orange colour in the photo, assuming camera colour correction have not completely changed it, looks much more like incomplete combustion than sodium to me.
    – Anders Sandberg
    yesterday




    Also, sodium yellow is a fairly recognizable flame colour. The more orange colour in the photo, assuming camera colour correction have not completely changed it, looks much more like incomplete combustion than sodium to me.
    – Anders Sandberg
    yesterday












    the original Golden Gate Bridge overhead lights were low-pressure sodium, which produced an intense orange color that is very similar to the orange tint in the OP's photo. modern high-pressure sodium lights are whiter in color because they have a thermal spectrum superimposed on the line spectrum.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago




    the original Golden Gate Bridge overhead lights were low-pressure sodium, which produced an intense orange color that is very similar to the orange tint in the OP's photo. modern high-pressure sodium lights are whiter in color because they have a thermal spectrum superimposed on the line spectrum.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago












    Natural gas is CH4 and its combustion goes to completion without producing significant amounts of carbon which would tint the flame yellow and orange, as in the case of a candle that is burning paraffin.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago




    Natural gas is CH4 and its combustion goes to completion without producing significant amounts of carbon which would tint the flame yellow and orange, as in the case of a candle that is burning paraffin.
    – niels nielsen
    17 hours ago












    @AndersSandberg the camera often lies! (Though I agree with your conclusion)
    – Chris H
    3 hours ago




    @AndersSandberg the camera often lies! (Though I agree with your conclusion)
    – Chris H
    3 hours ago










    up vote
    5
    down vote













    The accepted answer is not correct.



    I have a gas stove in the basement which I have to do periodic maintenance on. This requires you to remove a bunch of fake logs, which are made out of some very lightweight material, I think something similar to rockwool but more solid. After maintenance I turn it on to be sure it's still working, and noticed that if the "logs" are not in, the flame is pure blue. This piqued my interest, so I replaced the logs and noticed that the flame turns orange after a short period, which corresponds visibly to the "logs" beginning to glow red. For instance, here is the stove shortly after starting (as quickly as I could run from the thermostat to the stove) and then again about two minutes later:



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    Not a huge difference, but you can see it. The flame along the front has no "log" over it so it remains blue. There used to be some rockwool insulation here but I removed it thinking it was left over from the installation.



    It is not entirely clear how the "logs" do this, but it is clear this is purely due to the temperature of the flame. For further proof, I took these two photos of our cooktop:



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    As you can see, simply inserting something cold into the flame causes it to turn orange. Now a huge effect here either, but that's because I was one-handing the photo and the knife isn't properly positioned. The humidifier does this by inserting a mist of water over the entire area.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • Your theory is plausible, but your evidence is also explainable by sodium; the knife will have sodium on it (and is made of a bunch of other metals). How do you know it's the temperature and not the sodium (or other chemical) in both cases? Does the effect go away if you preheat the knife in the oven?
      – Richard Tingle
      22 hours ago








    • 6




      "the knife will have sodium" - of come on, at the absolute best-case limit it will not be enough to be visible, and especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long. And what do you think is happening in the stove? Those "logs" are almost 30 years old and burn orange as long as the stove is running. The sodium explaination is completely implausible in both instances, or the hundreds of other objects you might try. Have you actually tried this, with anything?
      – Maury Markowitz
      21 hours ago












    • Ilmari suggests the sodium line is very strong. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/441648/…. And as long as the knife and logs continue to exist they are clearly made of something. Not saying you're wrong, just that you've not really proved your theory right either (and of course I haven't tried it, I'm neither the OP nor an answerer)
      – Richard Tingle
      21 hours ago












    • Not to mention the fact that the question isn't about a knife or logs but about a dehumifier which looks to have distinctly red flames
      – Richard Tingle
      21 hours ago








    • 2




      @MauryMarkowitz "especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long" .. if the temperature of the object really was the reason, shouldn't it have heated up enough for the flame to lose that orange colour by then?
      – muru
      5 hours ago















    up vote
    5
    down vote













    The accepted answer is not correct.



    I have a gas stove in the basement which I have to do periodic maintenance on. This requires you to remove a bunch of fake logs, which are made out of some very lightweight material, I think something similar to rockwool but more solid. After maintenance I turn it on to be sure it's still working, and noticed that if the "logs" are not in, the flame is pure blue. This piqued my interest, so I replaced the logs and noticed that the flame turns orange after a short period, which corresponds visibly to the "logs" beginning to glow red. For instance, here is the stove shortly after starting (as quickly as I could run from the thermostat to the stove) and then again about two minutes later:



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    Not a huge difference, but you can see it. The flame along the front has no "log" over it so it remains blue. There used to be some rockwool insulation here but I removed it thinking it was left over from the installation.



    It is not entirely clear how the "logs" do this, but it is clear this is purely due to the temperature of the flame. For further proof, I took these two photos of our cooktop:



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    As you can see, simply inserting something cold into the flame causes it to turn orange. Now a huge effect here either, but that's because I was one-handing the photo and the knife isn't properly positioned. The humidifier does this by inserting a mist of water over the entire area.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • Your theory is plausible, but your evidence is also explainable by sodium; the knife will have sodium on it (and is made of a bunch of other metals). How do you know it's the temperature and not the sodium (or other chemical) in both cases? Does the effect go away if you preheat the knife in the oven?
      – Richard Tingle
      22 hours ago








    • 6




      "the knife will have sodium" - of come on, at the absolute best-case limit it will not be enough to be visible, and especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long. And what do you think is happening in the stove? Those "logs" are almost 30 years old and burn orange as long as the stove is running. The sodium explaination is completely implausible in both instances, or the hundreds of other objects you might try. Have you actually tried this, with anything?
      – Maury Markowitz
      21 hours ago












    • Ilmari suggests the sodium line is very strong. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/441648/…. And as long as the knife and logs continue to exist they are clearly made of something. Not saying you're wrong, just that you've not really proved your theory right either (and of course I haven't tried it, I'm neither the OP nor an answerer)
      – Richard Tingle
      21 hours ago












    • Not to mention the fact that the question isn't about a knife or logs but about a dehumifier which looks to have distinctly red flames
      – Richard Tingle
      21 hours ago








    • 2




      @MauryMarkowitz "especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long" .. if the temperature of the object really was the reason, shouldn't it have heated up enough for the flame to lose that orange colour by then?
      – muru
      5 hours ago













    up vote
    5
    down vote










    up vote
    5
    down vote









    The accepted answer is not correct.



    I have a gas stove in the basement which I have to do periodic maintenance on. This requires you to remove a bunch of fake logs, which are made out of some very lightweight material, I think something similar to rockwool but more solid. After maintenance I turn it on to be sure it's still working, and noticed that if the "logs" are not in, the flame is pure blue. This piqued my interest, so I replaced the logs and noticed that the flame turns orange after a short period, which corresponds visibly to the "logs" beginning to glow red. For instance, here is the stove shortly after starting (as quickly as I could run from the thermostat to the stove) and then again about two minutes later:



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    Not a huge difference, but you can see it. The flame along the front has no "log" over it so it remains blue. There used to be some rockwool insulation here but I removed it thinking it was left over from the installation.



    It is not entirely clear how the "logs" do this, but it is clear this is purely due to the temperature of the flame. For further proof, I took these two photos of our cooktop:



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    As you can see, simply inserting something cold into the flame causes it to turn orange. Now a huge effect here either, but that's because I was one-handing the photo and the knife isn't properly positioned. The humidifier does this by inserting a mist of water over the entire area.






    share|cite|improve this answer












    The accepted answer is not correct.



    I have a gas stove in the basement which I have to do periodic maintenance on. This requires you to remove a bunch of fake logs, which are made out of some very lightweight material, I think something similar to rockwool but more solid. After maintenance I turn it on to be sure it's still working, and noticed that if the "logs" are not in, the flame is pure blue. This piqued my interest, so I replaced the logs and noticed that the flame turns orange after a short period, which corresponds visibly to the "logs" beginning to glow red. For instance, here is the stove shortly after starting (as quickly as I could run from the thermostat to the stove) and then again about two minutes later:



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    Not a huge difference, but you can see it. The flame along the front has no "log" over it so it remains blue. There used to be some rockwool insulation here but I removed it thinking it was left over from the installation.



    It is not entirely clear how the "logs" do this, but it is clear this is purely due to the temperature of the flame. For further proof, I took these two photos of our cooktop:



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    As you can see, simply inserting something cold into the flame causes it to turn orange. Now a huge effect here either, but that's because I was one-handing the photo and the knife isn't properly positioned. The humidifier does this by inserting a mist of water over the entire area.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered 22 hours ago









    Maury Markowitz

    2,655521




    2,655521












    • Your theory is plausible, but your evidence is also explainable by sodium; the knife will have sodium on it (and is made of a bunch of other metals). How do you know it's the temperature and not the sodium (or other chemical) in both cases? Does the effect go away if you preheat the knife in the oven?
      – Richard Tingle
      22 hours ago








    • 6




      "the knife will have sodium" - of come on, at the absolute best-case limit it will not be enough to be visible, and especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long. And what do you think is happening in the stove? Those "logs" are almost 30 years old and burn orange as long as the stove is running. The sodium explaination is completely implausible in both instances, or the hundreds of other objects you might try. Have you actually tried this, with anything?
      – Maury Markowitz
      21 hours ago












    • Ilmari suggests the sodium line is very strong. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/441648/…. And as long as the knife and logs continue to exist they are clearly made of something. Not saying you're wrong, just that you've not really proved your theory right either (and of course I haven't tried it, I'm neither the OP nor an answerer)
      – Richard Tingle
      21 hours ago












    • Not to mention the fact that the question isn't about a knife or logs but about a dehumifier which looks to have distinctly red flames
      – Richard Tingle
      21 hours ago








    • 2




      @MauryMarkowitz "especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long" .. if the temperature of the object really was the reason, shouldn't it have heated up enough for the flame to lose that orange colour by then?
      – muru
      5 hours ago


















    • Your theory is plausible, but your evidence is also explainable by sodium; the knife will have sodium on it (and is made of a bunch of other metals). How do you know it's the temperature and not the sodium (or other chemical) in both cases? Does the effect go away if you preheat the knife in the oven?
      – Richard Tingle
      22 hours ago








    • 6




      "the knife will have sodium" - of come on, at the absolute best-case limit it will not be enough to be visible, and especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long. And what do you think is happening in the stove? Those "logs" are almost 30 years old and burn orange as long as the stove is running. The sodium explaination is completely implausible in both instances, or the hundreds of other objects you might try. Have you actually tried this, with anything?
      – Maury Markowitz
      21 hours ago












    • Ilmari suggests the sodium line is very strong. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/441648/…. And as long as the knife and logs continue to exist they are clearly made of something. Not saying you're wrong, just that you've not really proved your theory right either (and of course I haven't tried it, I'm neither the OP nor an answerer)
      – Richard Tingle
      21 hours ago












    • Not to mention the fact that the question isn't about a knife or logs but about a dehumifier which looks to have distinctly red flames
      – Richard Tingle
      21 hours ago








    • 2




      @MauryMarkowitz "especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long" .. if the temperature of the object really was the reason, shouldn't it have heated up enough for the flame to lose that orange colour by then?
      – muru
      5 hours ago
















    Your theory is plausible, but your evidence is also explainable by sodium; the knife will have sodium on it (and is made of a bunch of other metals). How do you know it's the temperature and not the sodium (or other chemical) in both cases? Does the effect go away if you preheat the knife in the oven?
    – Richard Tingle
    22 hours ago






    Your theory is plausible, but your evidence is also explainable by sodium; the knife will have sodium on it (and is made of a bunch of other metals). How do you know it's the temperature and not the sodium (or other chemical) in both cases? Does the effect go away if you preheat the knife in the oven?
    – Richard Tingle
    22 hours ago






    6




    6




    "the knife will have sodium" - of come on, at the absolute best-case limit it will not be enough to be visible, and especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long. And what do you think is happening in the stove? Those "logs" are almost 30 years old and burn orange as long as the stove is running. The sodium explaination is completely implausible in both instances, or the hundreds of other objects you might try. Have you actually tried this, with anything?
    – Maury Markowitz
    21 hours ago






    "the knife will have sodium" - of come on, at the absolute best-case limit it will not be enough to be visible, and especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long. And what do you think is happening in the stove? Those "logs" are almost 30 years old and burn orange as long as the stove is running. The sodium explaination is completely implausible in both instances, or the hundreds of other objects you might try. Have you actually tried this, with anything?
    – Maury Markowitz
    21 hours ago














    Ilmari suggests the sodium line is very strong. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/441648/…. And as long as the knife and logs continue to exist they are clearly made of something. Not saying you're wrong, just that you've not really proved your theory right either (and of course I haven't tried it, I'm neither the OP nor an answerer)
    – Richard Tingle
    21 hours ago






    Ilmari suggests the sodium line is very strong. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/441648/…. And as long as the knife and logs continue to exist they are clearly made of something. Not saying you're wrong, just that you've not really proved your theory right either (and of course I haven't tried it, I'm neither the OP nor an answerer)
    – Richard Tingle
    21 hours ago














    Not to mention the fact that the question isn't about a knife or logs but about a dehumifier which looks to have distinctly red flames
    – Richard Tingle
    21 hours ago






    Not to mention the fact that the question isn't about a knife or logs but about a dehumifier which looks to have distinctly red flames
    – Richard Tingle
    21 hours ago






    2




    2




    @MauryMarkowitz "especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long" .. if the temperature of the object really was the reason, shouldn't it have heated up enough for the flame to lose that orange colour by then?
    – muru
    5 hours ago




    @MauryMarkowitz "especially not enough to explain the fact that it will continue to be orange all day long if you care to hold it in that long" .. if the temperature of the object really was the reason, shouldn't it have heated up enough for the flame to lose that orange colour by then?
    – muru
    5 hours ago










    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Little bit of every thing here. But I would certainly not ignore CO. Remember gas comes out under pressure, and if any passes through the heat of the flame before being completely oxidized, you get CO. Presence of sodium could contribute, I would test with distilled water first. But water droplets would cool the flame faster by drawing heat to evaporate. Get a CO meter, and open the windows!






    share|cite|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Robert DiGiovanni is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Little bit of every thing here. But I would certainly not ignore CO. Remember gas comes out under pressure, and if any passes through the heat of the flame before being completely oxidized, you get CO. Presence of sodium could contribute, I would test with distilled water first. But water droplets would cool the flame faster by drawing heat to evaporate. Get a CO meter, and open the windows!






      share|cite|improve this answer








      New contributor




      Robert DiGiovanni is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















        up vote
        1
        down vote










        up vote
        1
        down vote









        Little bit of every thing here. But I would certainly not ignore CO. Remember gas comes out under pressure, and if any passes through the heat of the flame before being completely oxidized, you get CO. Presence of sodium could contribute, I would test with distilled water first. But water droplets would cool the flame faster by drawing heat to evaporate. Get a CO meter, and open the windows!






        share|cite|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Robert DiGiovanni is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        Little bit of every thing here. But I would certainly not ignore CO. Remember gas comes out under pressure, and if any passes through the heat of the flame before being completely oxidized, you get CO. Presence of sodium could contribute, I would test with distilled water first. But water droplets would cool the flame faster by drawing heat to evaporate. Get a CO meter, and open the windows!







        share|cite|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Robert DiGiovanni is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer






        New contributor




        Robert DiGiovanni is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        answered 22 hours ago









        Robert DiGiovanni

        111




        111




        New contributor




        Robert DiGiovanni is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.





        New contributor





        Robert DiGiovanni is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        Robert DiGiovanni is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






















            up vote
            -1
            down vote













            The humidifier increases the percentage of water vapour in the air, which decreases the percentage of oxygen. The deficit of oxygen makes the burning of the gas less efficient, with the orange flame that also indicates a higher amount of CO in the exhaust gas.



            Make sure to increase ventilation when you see orange tips on the flames.






            share|cite|improve this answer

















            • 1




              I doubt it, I find the explanation with the salt more likely. But this is easy to check experimentally by taking a spectrum: soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm.
              – Pieter
              yesterday








            • 6




              The humidifier surely isn't displacing any significant amount of oxygen.
              – David Richerby
              yesterday






            • 1




              If you're going to disagree with me, do it with metrics.
              – Douglas Held
              20 hours ago






            • 3




              That's why there are so many reports of humidifier deaths, right?
              – immibis
              9 hours ago















            up vote
            -1
            down vote













            The humidifier increases the percentage of water vapour in the air, which decreases the percentage of oxygen. The deficit of oxygen makes the burning of the gas less efficient, with the orange flame that also indicates a higher amount of CO in the exhaust gas.



            Make sure to increase ventilation when you see orange tips on the flames.






            share|cite|improve this answer

















            • 1




              I doubt it, I find the explanation with the salt more likely. But this is easy to check experimentally by taking a spectrum: soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm.
              – Pieter
              yesterday








            • 6




              The humidifier surely isn't displacing any significant amount of oxygen.
              – David Richerby
              yesterday






            • 1




              If you're going to disagree with me, do it with metrics.
              – Douglas Held
              20 hours ago






            • 3




              That's why there are so many reports of humidifier deaths, right?
              – immibis
              9 hours ago













            up vote
            -1
            down vote










            up vote
            -1
            down vote









            The humidifier increases the percentage of water vapour in the air, which decreases the percentage of oxygen. The deficit of oxygen makes the burning of the gas less efficient, with the orange flame that also indicates a higher amount of CO in the exhaust gas.



            Make sure to increase ventilation when you see orange tips on the flames.






            share|cite|improve this answer












            The humidifier increases the percentage of water vapour in the air, which decreases the percentage of oxygen. The deficit of oxygen makes the burning of the gas less efficient, with the orange flame that also indicates a higher amount of CO in the exhaust gas.



            Make sure to increase ventilation when you see orange tips on the flames.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            Douglas Held

            1936




            1936








            • 1




              I doubt it, I find the explanation with the salt more likely. But this is easy to check experimentally by taking a spectrum: soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm.
              – Pieter
              yesterday








            • 6




              The humidifier surely isn't displacing any significant amount of oxygen.
              – David Richerby
              yesterday






            • 1




              If you're going to disagree with me, do it with metrics.
              – Douglas Held
              20 hours ago






            • 3




              That's why there are so many reports of humidifier deaths, right?
              – immibis
              9 hours ago














            • 1




              I doubt it, I find the explanation with the salt more likely. But this is easy to check experimentally by taking a spectrum: soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm.
              – Pieter
              yesterday








            • 6




              The humidifier surely isn't displacing any significant amount of oxygen.
              – David Richerby
              yesterday






            • 1




              If you're going to disagree with me, do it with metrics.
              – Douglas Held
              20 hours ago






            • 3




              That's why there are so many reports of humidifier deaths, right?
              – immibis
              9 hours ago








            1




            1




            I doubt it, I find the explanation with the salt more likely. But this is easy to check experimentally by taking a spectrum: soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm.
            – Pieter
            yesterday






            I doubt it, I find the explanation with the salt more likely. But this is easy to check experimentally by taking a spectrum: soot gives a black-body spectrum, salt gives the Na atomic lines at 589 nm.
            – Pieter
            yesterday






            6




            6




            The humidifier surely isn't displacing any significant amount of oxygen.
            – David Richerby
            yesterday




            The humidifier surely isn't displacing any significant amount of oxygen.
            – David Richerby
            yesterday




            1




            1




            If you're going to disagree with me, do it with metrics.
            – Douglas Held
            20 hours ago




            If you're going to disagree with me, do it with metrics.
            – Douglas Held
            20 hours ago




            3




            3




            That's why there are so many reports of humidifier deaths, right?
            – immibis
            9 hours ago




            That's why there are so many reports of humidifier deaths, right?
            – immibis
            9 hours ago





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